Ep. 85 - What is the Master of Arts in Mathematics?

In Episode 85 of the CSUSB Advising Podcast, Matt Markin chats with Dr. Corey Dunn, professor and graduate coordinator of the Master of Arts in Mathematics! Dr. Dunn discusses the the application process, graduate level coursework, potential career pathways, and more!   

Have questions about the MA in Math? Check out the Master of Arts in Mathematics website or e-mail Dr. Dunn (cmdunn@csusb.edu).

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey there Yoties. It's time for another episode of the CSUSB Advising Podcast. Welcome back as always. This is Matt Markin, an academic advisor at Cal State San Bernardino, and on today's episode, we're going to learn more about one of our graduate programs, and that is the Master of Arts in mathematics. And to help us unpack this program, we have special guest and that is professor and graduate coordinator, Dr. Corey Dunn. Dr. Dunn, welcome to the podcast. 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Hi. Thanks for having me. Glad to be here. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, can you tell us a little bit about yourself, and you know your background in higher ed?

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Sure. So I've been at Cal State San Bernardino since 2006 I got my PhD in pure math at University of Oregon in 2006 and I came straight here after grad school. My research is in differential geometry, which is how things curve. We could do a whole other podcast on that, if you want. But I anyway, I've been the graduate coordinator here for now, just about 10 years. And I was also one of the I led the transformation effort from quarters to semesters, and so I was one of the people that was in charge of really writing the curriculum that we have for semesters. And I think I'm the best person to talk to. So glad to be here.

Matt Markin  
For sure. And you know that could also be another full episode is about the quarter to semester conversion, everything you had to do regarding that for your program.

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Yeah, it, I think not a lot of students realize how much work went into that behind the scenes. I'm sure people could guess. But it was the it was a wild experience. And funny thing, I mean, it started in 2018 or 2017 even, and it just took years to arrange. But here we are, and it's just weird that it started our first semester was during COVID.

Matt Markin  
And actually, yeah, that's a great lead in you know, can you tell us a little bit more? Like, how would you describe the MA in mathematics?

Dr. Corey Dunn  
I think that the MA program, I've been thinking about this, and I think it's really a program for everybody. If you like math, this is a great program for you. I think that, just to describe a little bit about the program, you can read more about the specifics on the website, I'm sure. But you know, we have a pure math core about advanced analysis and abstract algebra course, but we also offer, and this is new to semesters, a communicating mathematics course that's also a required course. We found that a lot of our students really get a lot out of that. They really get a lot out of it. Because, you know, if you really understand math, that's great, but you know, communicating your knowledge is, I think, just as important. So that's part of the curriculum. Students get credit for that of course. But then after the core courses there, I guess, of course, there's also a sort of culminating experience. You can either do a thesis or a collection of comprehensive exams, but and you know, the most people choose the thesis, I think, but that's an opportunity for you. When I say it's for everybody, I think the thesis is an opportunity for people, to any student, to just get really into a subject that they really like. I get a lot of questions about, you know, how do I choose a thesis topic? Or, how do I find a thesis advisor? And, you know, you could talk to me about that. I have more specific answers, depending on the student, but you just talk to somebody and say, Hey, what do you do? You have any thesis projects, but you know, like, what do you do for a thesis? I think there's this misconception that it's on the student to kind of like, come up with a whole project. In reality, it is typically the case that the student would work with a professor who becomes their advisor, and that the professor has a lot of good ideas and says, you know, we could look at, I hear you saying that you like this, you know, what? What do we why don't we just do this? We could do this. You know, read this stuff, and it kind of goes from there in a similar way to how that's very student centered, and the student has a lot of, like flexibility and what they do for a thesis. Just one more thing about that, the topics of theses are all over the mathematical interest scale. You know, we have a lot of theses in pure math. I've advised a lot of theses. Every one of our professors can advise theses. So it could be in pure math, it could be in math education, it could be in applied math or statistics. So when I say that the program is for everybody, what I mean is that no matter what your mathematical interest is, and no matter what you want to do with your math degree, I think Cal State is a great place to go to achieve a lot of the training you might be looking for. And then finally, there's the elective courses, and we have 6000 level electives in the form of topics courses, or a few other things, problem solving, independent studies, things of that sort. But then also, there's a lot of undergraduate courses. I say undergraduate, what I really mean is 5000 level courses, or even some 4000 level courses that can count towards your. Master's degree as well. So I think when I say it's for everybody, I mean that, you know, I hope that people can see, after hearing this, that whatever you think you want to study, there is a really, there's, there's a path for you, you know, and, yeah, you got to take these core courses. I mean, they're useful for everybody, but whatever your mathematical interest is, there's elective courses that can help you to get deeper into that field. There's a thesis in any kind of field you want, and it's not all on you. You have a lot of professors here who have advised a lot of theses. Anybody could do it, anybody's willing to help. And I just, I hope everybody just realizes just how flexible it can be. That's the way we designed this program. That's the way I designed this program.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. And I hope, yeah, that any students listening to this really understand that, yeah. I mean, there are some programs that might be very structured, very strict, and in this case, there's a lot of support, not only from all the faculty and from you as a graduate coordinator, but yeah, there's a lot of flexibility based off like the students interest as well. And I guess that leads into like the students interested in, you know, potentially applying for the graduate program. You know, how would you describe like the admissions process or the application process to that? 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Well, the admission the application is online, so I think it's at Cal state.edu/apply, or something. Anyway, I just Googled apply, ma math program, CSUSB, and it was the first thing that came up. So it's hard to miss, I'm sure, but it's an online application. Students need the a couple of things. The first thing is, they need a bachelor's degree. I think that's a university regulation is that if you're going to get into a master's program, you have to at least have a bachelor's degree. What a lot of students may not know is that you actually don't have to have a bachelor's degree in the same subject. We've had people here in the math program come I'm thinking of one person in particular who had a bachelor's degree in psychology, and she had a ways to go to kind of meet all the prerequisites, which I'll get to in a minute. But you don't have to have a degree in math. In our particular program, though, and I think most math grad programs having a bachelor like the prerequisites, the content prerequisites are essentially the same as the core courses of what would be a bachelor's degree in math. So although you don't need a bachelor's degree in math to apply, I think it certainly helps. And if you don't meet the prerequisites because of whatever reason, maybe your bachelor's degree is in physics or computer science or whatever else, or maybe your bachelor's degree is in math, but you don't meet certain things for certain reasons, you can always apply through Open University and take courses here that will meet those prerequisites. So it's not as if you're stuck to be more specific about the prerequisites. So in addition to a bachelor's degree, you'll need your undergraduate transcripts, which must be very easy if you went to Cal State San Bernardino, you also need three letters of recommendation. In finding your letters of recommendation or the people to write them, what I look for, and I think what is important to the department, is that you find people that can speak to your academic abilities. We want to know if you're ready for graduate study, if you have maybe a portion of your transcript that you're not proud of. Maybe there's some reason it's like that we'd like to know. So we also have a so although the letters could speak to that, you know, if you have a professor who was your professor during maybe a difficult time, that can speak to your ability, why? Maybe you didn't do so well in a course, that's maybe a good idea too. But we also require a personal statement. So that's your opportunity to contextualize your mathematical experiences, your goals, your motivation, and just to help us, help us to see who you are. That's not on your transcript, and that's not in these letters. So the content prerequisites to the program, these are the courses that you'll need to have done in in your past, in order to qualify to get into the program, there's five categories. The first category is to have take all of these categories. Is one course with A, B or better, and that is one course in abstract algebra, one course in analysis, real analysis, and then one course in a pure math class, one course in an applied math class, and one course in an advanced math class. It's hard for me to list out. I think it would be too long to list out the kinds of things that would work for that. But on our website, where we have a website for program description, we list some sample courses that could count as a pure math course or or any of the others. If you got a B minus in one of those courses, might be okay. You could talk to me about it. I'd love to know, you know where you stand one. One thing that I think I should mention that's not really well known is that if you fail to meet all five of these so let's suppose that of the five you have four of them done. You can. Still apply to the program, and there's two different types of admission. There's being conditionally classified and being fully classified. The difference is, is that you're admitted in either case, but that it's just a question of whether or not you meet all the prerequisites. So if you meet four of those five categories, but not the fifth, then you could, I think you should still try to apply. You could get in conditionally. And what that means is that you would be a graduate student. You'd be admitted to the program, provided you meet, you know, all of these other things. And the only difference is, is that you need to take you need to resolve that prerequisite. Once you get into the program. You wouldn't get ma credit in doing so, of course, because it's prerequisite to the program, but at least you'd be in the program and you could get started, you know, you'd be admitted. You can take graduate courses, you can start earning graduate credit. I get questions like, Well, what happens if I only need three of these? What happens if I need none of them, if you don't meet at least four of them. It really doesn't make sense to be admitted, because we're talking about a larger percentage of coursework, and I think historically, we found not as good outcomes with fewer than that. So so if you don't meet all the prerequisites, or if you're not sure if you do, you should reach out to me. I do 100% of the advising in the master's program. I talked to a lot of students. I'd be happy to get you going and find some plan for you to get in. The only other prerequisite requirement is a GPA of 3.0 or higher. We still consider applications with a GPA of less than 3.0 there are ways in which we can sort of evaluate applications, to find a way to admit you if your GPA is less than 3.0 in a lot of cases. So if your GPA is less than 3.0 I don't think that should deter you from applying once again. If you have any questions, you can contact me. I will say, however, if your GPA is 2.5 or less, I don't even see your application, your university rejects you outright. I think that's the university rule, but I think that in any event, for like, what is the application? Like, you do it online. You need those things. If you have any questions, you should reach out to me. It's part of my job to find ways to get people into this program. If you're interested, and I'd be happy to work with anybody to to to get them in, you know, or at least find a plan if you're not ready to be in.

Matt Markin  
And you maybe you've gotten this question before, and if not, you know, we'll see your answer to this. But let's say student, you know, they're going to be graduating, and you know, maybe they're wondering, should I go right after I get my bachelor degree and go from the master's program, or should I wait, you know, get some experience, work, experience, whatnot, and then apply for Master's program? What are your thoughts on that?

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Yeah, that's a that's a really great question. I think the short answer is, is that it all depends on what the students goals are. There's a lot of reasons. There's a whole lot of reasons that aren't even academic, why somebody would want to graduate with a bachelor's degree and go straight to work. It could be wanting to earn money, it could be supporting family. It could just be interest. It could what? There's lots of reasons. There's also lots of reasons to go to not to if you want to take a break because you're burned out. I think that's one thing. But if you wonder if it's wise to wait, like, do I need this experience before I apply? The answer is no, you know, if that's the only thing keeping you from applying, you should just apply, because that's not a part of your application. It could be the case, though, that you don't need some prerequisites, and you maybe need to enroll through Open University, take a semester, get some classes under your belt. The person I'm thinking of who had a degree in psychology, she had to take a good, full year or two of classes before she applied, but she did, and then she graduated not too long ago. In fact, she's at one of our 100 instructors now. So I so I don't know it's a tough call whether or not people would want to do that, and I think it's personal, but I think in the end, thinking that you need more background, or something like that is, I would say that's not a reason to wait. We have our prerequisites for a reason. If you meet the prerequisites, we think you have the profile of somebody who's going to be successful. So if you have those prerequisites, or if you have almost all of them, this program is for you. There's no reason to wait unless you have another personal reason to wait.

Matt Markin  
All right, sounds good, and you talked a little bit about it already. But can you talk more about, you know, within the particular program, what students are learning in their classes, or even, like, how long the program is.

Dr. Corey Dunn  
So the program itself is 31 units. We designed it to take two years for a full time student to do. I think unlike I get this quite like this is surprising for undergraduates when I say this, but I think a lot of undergraduates don't realize that graduate programs are typically more personalized than undergraduate programs. Programs. I don't know about other graduate programs here at Cal State, but San Bernardino, but I I can tell you that the amount of time it takes people to complete this degree varies widely between people. It's a good time to point out that a lot of our students have jobs. Some of them have teaching jobs. Some of them have careers. Some of them have families. It's just a different it's a different life part to be in graduate school, and we designed the program with that in mind. So I should say that a lot of our courses are 6000 level courses. All of them are in take place on Monday and Wednesdays in the evenings, and that's to accommodate people with families, people with careers, all sorts of stuff. The other electives, it's up to you know that we have a different schedule for that, because undergraduates may be in those courses, but at least the 6000 level courses that we have flexibility in mind. So what do people learn? We have like I mentioned, we have our core in pure math, which is, although we could have done a lot of different things, there's an algebra course, abstract algebra and analysis course, and then, of course, there's elective courses students can choose from. Then the thesis, I think that for the one maybe, I mean, there's a lot of things I could say about this, but one thing I think I should mention is that a lot of students, for a lot of students, it's not getting the classes done that determines how long it takes. It's how they do with their thesis. Because the thesis is not just a course. Yeah, there are two courses. There's six units that you get for work on your thesis. But it's not as like. It's not like, once you enroll in that class and the term comes to an end that you're done with, that you don't graduate till your thesis is done. And I think that's what's unusual, and I think students don't understand that this is a very personal process. You get it done as you get it done. I've had my for my own sake. I've advised thesis students that have come up to me and in the fall and said, Let's do a thesis I really want to get done by the spring. And we did it. I've had other students that have taken several years to get it done, and that's not bad. I mean, these are people that have careers and families, they're going to get it done when they get it done, and it's just right for them. So, I mean, I don't want to discourage anybody. Of course, the thesis is kind of this culminating experience that should be a big deal, but I think it's personal to each student, and I think each person should expect that they're going to have a timeline that meets their needs and it'll get done when it gets done.

Matt Markin  
And I guess that's a good segue into this question. You know, you've talked about, you know, some of the differences that, yeah, for the graduate coursework, that it's more personalized, you know, they have the thesis. So it's not like a bachelor's degree, where, for most part, you take all your classes and then here's your degree. Can you talk about maybe, if there's any additional differences you find between undergrad versus graduate level courses?

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Yeah, it's a little bit difficult to answer that, because some of the courses for electives could be say, at the 5000 level that both undergraduates or graduates could be taking, for example, complex analysis or topology. You know, those are courses that graduate students can earn elective credit for, and undergraduates can earn undergraduate elective credit for. So in that sense, it's not as if those courses are done differently just because you're have a different classification. However, the 6000 level courses, I think, are just designed for graduate students. I think that, on the one hand, graduate math can happen a little bit faster. I think that, I think that our professors kind of expect the students to be able to keep pace. I don't want that to scare anybody, though, because I think one thing I consistently hear consistently here, even just yesterday, I had a student sitting in my office right here telling me that one of the things that they're so happy about is that they think that the professors in the department are just great, that they work with the students. They understand students needs. We listen they they feel as if our faculty are people that can be talked to and reasoned with. So I So, yeah, I think that our graduate courses, like 6018 and 6016 those are the two core courses. I think those are some of the hardest courses that we offer, but I don't think that should deter a student from taking them just because they might be more difficult than any other math course they've had. If you meet the prerequisites for the courses, those are the prerequisites for a reason, you're fine to take the course, and you're going to have an instructor that's reasonable, that cares about you and your progress, and that if you struggle, you can talk to them about it and make a plan.

Matt Markin  
And you know, and I'm sure you get this question too, is like the career area, career field type question? So let's say a student is interested in doing this graduate program, doing the MA in mathematics. What type of possible career areas have you seen like your students go into with? Uh, utilizing the the master's degree. 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
That's a great question, and I think it's probably one of the most important questions that we're talking about, because why? Why do this if you don't have a plan for when you're done? I can't say that was my case. In my case, I went to graduate school because I didn't know what to do, and I just like math, and that's a perfectly good reason to come to graduate school. Also, you'll figure it out when you get here. But as far as what the kinds of careers people get from here, I mean, that's a hard question to answer because it's so broad. There's so many different things that people do. To give you a couple of just snapshots. One example is that a lot of our graduates go into teaching or academia. By academia, what I mean is they may go from here and go get a PhD in math and then become a professor. In fact, one of our graduates from the master's program, I forget when he was here. Anyway, he got his master's degree here he went to go get his PhD and did a postdoc, and then eventually ended up he's one of our professors now. So we have somebody is Dr Bronson lemon. He was a graduate from Cal State San Bernardino master's program. So perfect example of someone who could go on to academia. A lot of our graduates are interested in teaching at our local community colleges. There's a lot of need, a lot of need for very good math, for math teachers in our community colleges. And so one of the things that we've reintroduced with the Q to S is a teaching practicum course. It's math 6178 you can get elective credit for it at the 6000 level. You can also repeat it. So anybody who's interested in teaching that's something specific that we have included in our program to sort of help to train our graduates in teaching, perhaps more so than in any other institutions. And not to mention that we also have deeper studies in math education available, either through independent study or from work in theses, thesis work. So, so if you have an interest in teaching math, I think specifically at the community college or higher level, although we have K through 12 educators also that are in our program right now, if you have any interest in teaching math, this is a program that can get you background in that training, not to mention academia, being a professor or something of that sort. Other types of math careers that people get are in industry. In fact, the master student that I had that I said, who talked to me at the Fall said, I want to graduate by the spring, and we did a thesis together. She now works at the NSA in, I think it's in Washington, DC, or somewhere on the East Coast, and she does work in cryptography and all sorts of things. So that's one industry government work NSA. There's also private industry actuarial work. So if you wanted to, you could be an actuary. That's a field where you know companies really want to know, like car insurance companies, based on this data, what should our premiums be? Or if you have this profile of a driver, what should your premium be? That's generally known as actuarial work, and we have statistics and data science professors here that are deeply involved with that kind of stuff, and can train people what those careers are about. We have also theses in those areas. You know, people do work in statistics for their thesis, and I think that that can lead directly to a really, really great job. It's hard for me, though, to like be more specific, because, you know, where our graduates go, they go to so many different things, but I think those are the two main lobes. They either go into teaching or academia, which we support here, or they go like pure math or, you know, those sorts of things, or they go into some sort of industry, data science, or something of that sort.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, it's just good to know that there's lot a lot of different options for students after they graduate, depending on their interest, but you have a lot of success stories with your graduates already with that. So that's really, really cool. 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
I was just going to say one more thing is that in recent years, our department has really grown in a lot of these different fields. So whereas we didn't have quite as many people to accommodate students of that who are interested in any of these different directions before, I think that our department's simply bigger. We have more of everybody, but we've also specifically hired in places like math education and statistics. So truly, it is the case that if you just like math and you want to do pure math, there's lots of people that like pure math here, and that's our specialty. That's my specialty. But if you like, if you specifically like teaching, you could get into that with any number of different people that are either new or have been here for a while. And if you like industry, there's a lot of people that we've hired and that have been here who can sort of help you with that too. So when I said it was for everybody. That's part of the reason. I meant that.

Matt Markin  
And you know, you were mentioning earlier about, like, a misconception, that there might be misconceptions about the thesis. Are there any other misconceptions that you think one might have about the MA in math, or even just math in general? 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
I don't know about misconceptions, but I think what I hear from math students is this, I don't know how healthy it is, but a healthy fear that you know graduate student graduate work is too hard, or, I've heard this too people sort of look inward and assess themselves in this way, which is too critical, like, I'm not the kind of person who can do graduate work. I'm not smart enough for that, or I'm not capable of that, or I don't know if I can do it. I hear that a lot, actually, and I don't know if that happens in other fields, but I think that in math, you know, we we logically criticize our work so much, I think it's natural to internalize some of that sometimes. So I don't know if it's a misconception, but I hear that a lot, and I think that that's definitely something that I hear people tell me that they struggled with as to whether or not they should apply. And I have, sort of like a factual logical answer that cannot be argued and I have another answer, the factual answer that cannot be argued with is, look, if you meet these prerequisites, you belong in this program, you'll do fine. Now that doesn't mean it's easy, but we have these we I developed these prerequisites for a reason. If you meet these prerequisites, historically, you have the profile of somebody who's going to do fine. That's that end of story. So if you feel like, if you have this, like, hang up, I don't feel like I'm really right for graduate study, like, I don't know, maybe there's another reason you feel that way. But if you have the grades, and if you have the background, then your profile says differently. You have the profile of someone who can succeed at graduate study. Now, the other answer I have is more like emotionally based, where I'm thinking specifically of a student I worked with a number of years ago, and, you know, I worked with her on some research. She was an undergraduate at the time, and she said, You know, I just, I don't think I can do it. And this was somebody who was the first in her family to go to college. I think in that way, she didn't have a lot of role models. You know, she didn't have other family members who had even been to college, let alone graduate school. I imagine it may have been very difficult for her to assess just how difficult it is. What's it like? What does it mean to succeed? What does it mean to struggle? Struggle is a natural part of a graduate program, as it is in every program, really. But she said, I just, I just don't think, I don't think I can do it. I don't think that I'm right, and I don't think, and she was interested, she wanted to, but she really didn't feel like she could do it. And I told her. I looked at her, I said, Are you out of your mind. You have, you know, this particular student had a 3.96 GPA, and she had taken almost every single one of our advanced courses as an undergraduate. If that's not somebody who can do well at graduates work, I don't know who could, right? So I think, I think that's the thing that I would tell people, is it's not really a misconception. If you think graduate work is difficult, you're right. These are hard classes. They're not easy. We don't make them hard on purpose. It's just difficult mathematics. There's not a lot of people with math degrees, and maybe that's the reason why. But at the same time, you really have to be straight with yourself and say, I might be interested in practice study. I don't know if I can do it. Look at your profile. Do you meet the prerequisites of the program? If you do, you belong here. You can do it now. If you don't want to do it, that's your that's a different issue. But if you meet these prerequisite issues or or maybe you need to talk to me about it to get over the hump, I'd be happy to talk to you about it. But you cannot argue that if you meet the prerequisites for the program or any of our graduate courses, that's something that you are able to do. That's why we have those prerequisites. Have confidence in that, and then if you still need more help, you come talk to me. I do 100% of the advising for our students that are in the program. Yes, I advise my own theses. You know, that's a different type of being an advisor, but so do a lot of our other professors here, you know, but as far as like getting into the program, come talk to me. If you have specific things that you are concerned about, you let me know. I've done this for 10 years. Chances are good. I've seen another student that's just like you in terms of your profile, and I could tell you how they turned out. You know, I'm a wealth of information because I've done this for so long, and I talked to a lot of people. I enjoy talking with students. Please just come talk to me if you're on the fence.

Matt Markin  
For the last question to kind of wrap things up, you know, let's say student goes through the process. They apply, they get in once they're in the program, are there any resources that you can share that your department offers to students?

Dr. Corey Dunn  
That is a very good question, and I do get that question a lot. The first thing I'll tell you is that one form of support is just normal university support. I know that's not what you asked, but financial aid scholarships mean that's available for graduate students. Too specific to our department, I can mention two things. I am a little bit sad though that there aren't more, and I've actually met with people I'm working on trying to get more resources for students, but it just hasn't worked out just yet. Now it's difficult, but one of the things is that we have a the university has a graduate equity fellowship. That's what it's called, graduate equity fellowship. I don't know exactly what the requirements are, but it's somewhere between a $500.02 $1,000 scholarship. If you want more information about that, you can find info about it on the grad studies webpage. Just look for graduate equity fellowship. So that's one thing, and we usually give those out sometime in the spring if there are any applicants. But it's a scholarship. It's free money if you if you're eligible, just apply for it. The second thing that we offer is that we have a teaching associate program. Now I should say this is different from certain ta programs at other universities. For example, most PhD granting institutions, the TA, like everybody is a TA, everybody gets funding, and at most PhD granting institutions, the payment that you get is a small stipend and a waiving of your tuition. That is not what happens here? I'm not sure why, but what we have here is that we have number one, a fewer number of positions available. That changes from year to year depending on enrollment. But usually we have somewhere between like four and seven new positions each year. You apply for the position in the spring, the person of the point of contact is Dr. Dalton Marsh. He's the person who coordinates the teaching associates. It's a job. You get paid for it. And you know your employee of the university you would teach, essentially teach your own math course. It's usually math 1402, which is one of our pre calculus courses, if I'm not mistaken, and that course is coordinated by Dalton, so you're not just handed a book and say, have fun. See you at the end of the semester. You know you have a support system. This is a program designed for people who want to learn how to teach a course, who are looking for support to teach a course, and who want to be around others who are trying teaching, perhaps for the first time, it's very competitive, as I said that, you know, usually, most years, I mean, every year is different. I don't want to, like, put a hard number on it, but just to give you an idea, about four to seven people each year, depending on enrollment. Some years it's less. Some years it's more. I don't want to, I don't want to put some it's being recorded. I said it, but that's generally what it is. But you'd go through an interview process and you would get paid. I don't know how much is the going rate for getting paid, but I think as jobs go, it's a really great job because you're getting teaching experience. You think you'd know the math going into it, but the more you teach it, the more you know it. It also works great for your resume, especially if you're interested in teaching, you know, like, say, at a community college, we could teach here for a while as a TA, and then when you graduate, I think that you are doing better than most of the people who are just entering the job market with a master's degree, because you have this it's not just experience, but it's guided experience. So I think it's I should have said this earlier, but I should also have mentioned that one of the things projects that I'm working on this year, next year, it's just a general project, but I'm putting a lot of energy into it now is that I really am interested specifically in what careers people do with a master's degree. I don't want to say general stuff like, oh, some people go into teaching. What I want to find are specific places that are hiring CSUSB graduates. That's what I want to find. I want to put those people's contacts on our website. If it's an industry right now, I can say I know of previous graduates that have gone on to work at the NSA or in various places in industry. I want to find specific contacts for people, and I want to our graduates, and I want to put it on our website. I want to put a link to the application of that specific job. I want to put salary ranges, benefits, I want all that stuff to be very clear for our graduates. That's a project I'm working on. It's in progress, so we don't have that up just yet. I'm still working on it. But about teaching, what I wanted to say is that I've one of the first things I've done with this is I've worked with some, actually former graduates. US of Cal State who work over at Valley College. Bethany tasaka is our A former graduate student here. She graduated, I think, in around 2008 and then there was someone else, the department chair, Anthony Castro. They're former graduates of Cal State. I've been working closely with them to try to develop a pathway for people who want to go into teaching, possibly through our TA program, and be a shoe in for positions at other institutions, just like Valley. So I think in the coming years, we're going to develop that for our graduates. And just not just have some idea about what are the opportunities people can do, but to have a very specific ideas about where people can go and what specific skills you need, and even contacts as well as I can do it, that's what I'm working on now.

Matt Markin  
Oh, that sounds awesome. Yeah, best to you on that. And I know, like the graduate students would really, really appreciate that, but Dr. Dunn, a lot of great information that you've given. I've learned a lot through this interview as well. Thank you again for being on the podcast today.

Dr. Corey Dunn  
You're welcome, and I just want to reach out to anybody listening. Special invitation. If you have even the slightest interest in this program and you're maybe you have specific questions. Maybe you don't know what questions you have, just reach out to me. Send me an email. I respond to people all the time about this. It's my job to give you the right information, even if that means I tell you that you're not right for the program. I want people in this program who are right for it, who I can tell it benefits them. So just reach out to me. That's what I do. Feel free.

Matt Markin  
And we'll make sure to also include your contact email and then also the link to the websites as well in our show notes, thanks again. 

Dr. Corey Dunn  
Thanks very much.