Ep. 67 - What is Student Research?

In Episode 67 of the CSUSB Advising Podcast, Matt Markin chats with Dr. Ryan Keating, Department Chair of History and Director of the Office of Student Research.  Dr. Keating discusses what student research is, why students should pursue research, and opportunities that the Office of Student Research provides. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin: 

Hello, this is Matt Markin, an academic advisor here at Cal State San Bernardino, and welcome back to the CSUSB Advising Podcast. We are at episode 67, and on today's episode, we're going to learn more about student research. So let's welcome our guest, and that is Dr. Ryan Keating, professor and department chair of history, and the director of the Office of Student Research, Dr. Keating, welcome.

Ryan Keating  
Hey Matt, thanks for having me. I'm excited to have the opportunity to talk to you about student research and, and the opportunities that that provides for students here on campus. And then once they leave our university, so it's exciting. It's exciting to have this platform.

Matt Markin  
So before we jump into student research, can you tell us a little bit about yourself and your your journey into higher ed?

Ryan Keating  
Yeah, sure. Absolutely. So I'm a professor of history, as you mentioned, and sort of my journey is a product of, I guess, me following my passions. I always loved history, I was always an avid reader. And there was a point when I was an undergrad where I was like, Oh, that's right. You know, that's what I want to do. I want to be a professor of history. And of course, there's, you know, my dad was like, what, you know, what, are you going to get a degree? And what are you going to do with a history degree? You know, and people ask those questions, obviously, when you're an undergrad, you know, what's the next step and I had this, this vision of becoming a professor, and it worked out through a combination of, you know, luck and hard work, I think, I went to undergrad at a small liberal arts college in Massachusetts, College of the Holy Cross. And then when I finished there, in 2005, I applied and was accepted to a master's, a one year master's program at Trinity College in Dublin. And it was kind of I didn't study abroad as an undergrad, which I regret. And, you know, is one of the reasons I'm so passionate about student research, in part because there, there were opportunities that I feel like I missed out on because I didn't really know about it, or wasn't really clear about it. And I hope that, you know, my experiences will help inform students and help them make decisions that advance their career. So I applied to grad school in Ireland. And I spent a year in Dublin, which was a great experience, in many ways. And then I didn't get into any PhD programs, my my first time around, so I applied widely when I was in Ireland, and I, unfortunately, was not accepted. And, you know, I think that that's the reality of grad school that students need to be aware of, right, like we have, we have big, big goals and and sometimes those goals are difficult to achieve. And oftentimes, it's not necessarily a reflection of our abilities, but rather, a whole host of things that are going on that are completely outside of our control. And so, you know, I was pretty bummed out about that. And I was like, What am I going to do, and I ended up going in teaching high school in Florida for a year, and I still applied to grad schools. And I think, finally, I was accepted to Fordham in the Bronx. And I started there in 2007. And I had a couple of amazing advisors. And I had a really great experience, you know, at that university, where I was really able to focus my interests on the Civil War era, and in particular, immigration to the United States during the 19th century. So I finished a Fordham in 2013. And then I was fortunate enough to be hired here at Cal State San Bernardino that fall. So it's a crazy scenario. I flew out here for my interview in March. And you can I flew back home, and I landed at 10 o'clock at night in LaGuardia. And I woke up next morning at eight and I had my dissertation defense that I heard back from this job the next day. And so it was really exciting moment in my life. And I never, never wanted to come to California that wasn't sort of in my in my plans as a civil war story. And I'm sort of identified as an east coaster, right, and that's where a lot of the war happens. But it's been a really tremendous opportunity. And I really love Cal State, and I'm really happy to be here. And in my roles. I think I use a lot of my own experiences, you know, navigating grad school and even the teaching profession to help sort of demystify a lot of things for students. That's one of my primary goals, right? Like, you know, when we have these aspirations to like, go do a PhD, for example, how do we get there, and a lot of our students don't know that process. And indeed, when I was 1819 20 years old, I had no idea what it entailed. And there's things I wish I had done differently and probably might have had, I had people like, talk to me and explained that things worked. And that's one of the cool things about these podcasts. And that's one of the cool things about what we do here at Cal State is that we're really proactive about providing educational opportunities outside of the classroom for students, so they know what to expect, they know what steps to take to get to where they want to go. And so they can best prepare themselves for that, that next step, right, and at the end of the day, all you can do, right, is is what you have control over.  So you can in, in your experiences here at Cal State San Bernardino, you know, you have control over the activities, you pursue your work in your class, and and making yourself the best candidate for the next step. And those are things we can control. And those are things that that ultimately I think, in most cases set us on a path to success. So I hope that answers that question is sort of long, long winded way. But most people tell me I talk too much. 

Matt Markin  
Definitely like like asking that first question to kind of see your journey, because I think that also gives students or anyone listen to the podcast and idea that for most people, it's never a straight line, you know, that we kind of go all over the place, a lot of it's based off opportunities, but also the decisions that we make. And someone once said, you can make three choices, a good choice, a bad choice, or be indecisive, but it's always make a choice. And you never know until you make it, what opportunities will come from that.

Ryan Keating  
So it's a really good point. And I think that those choices, though, like we have an obligation, right as, as advisors, or faculty or administrators, to provide students with the best, the most knowledge, right? So when they come take those choices, right, they can they can make them, you know, confident in the fact that they have all the tools to make that decision. And I think that that's, that's a really important part of the university experience. And, you know, it wasn't something when I was an undergrad, I don't think it was really something we talked about, right? You know, when I was an undergrad, the focus was like, Okay, well, you know, critical reading critical writing small classes, get to know your professors. And that was that was great. And I don't regret any of my experiences in that in that regard. But, you know, I think that, that we didn't really talk a lot about mentoring, when when I was an undergrad, we didn't really talk about sort of co curricular activities as important to the next steps. And we didn't really talk about sort of demystifying the process so that, you know, we could make the right decisions, like looking back I had, I finally recall my time in Ireland, but probably I didn't need to do that, right, I probably would have benefited from a mentor to step in and say, you know, that might not be the best path to where you want to go. And then if I had made that decision, of course, I, you know, that was my choice. But I wish that I had somebody, you know, to step in and be like, hey, you know, maybe think about X, Y, and Z option. So I could have made the best the best choices.

Matt Markin  
So when a student hears, like the term student research, how would How do you define that? 

Ryan Keating  
So that's, that's a great question. And I think that the idea of student research, or the notion of student research has a lot of misconceptions attached to it, you know, so when we say research, the first thing that comes to mind, I think, in my mind, and in the people that that I talked to, is, you know, in a lab with a lab coat, doing experiments, right. And that certainly is part of what research is, but research is incredibly broad. And research is ongoing in, in every field academically. So when you look across the university campus, when you look at the departments, and when you look at what the faculty and the departments are doing, we can see that they're doing diverse work on a host of subjects relevant to their field, and also relevant to bigger conversations that we have ongoing in the world around us. And when you think about research in that way, it's really important to think about research as a process, a process of engaging in academic conversations, and doing so through hands on engagement with the subject. So when we go to class, and we sit in class, and we read articles, when we read books, we're reading the research and analysis that somebody else has done. And that's an important part of understanding the big picture. It's an important part of seeing the conversations that are ongoing in our fields. But research, student research, and then and then research as a faculty member or in the private sector, wherever that may end up is the process of moving from the classroom. To the space in which the actual research occurs, right? Whether that be a lab or or whether that be a library or an archive, or a museum, or an archeological dig, right, you move from the book and then you move to the, the space in which research occurs. And then you're engaging in the physical process of analyzing cells, or reading historical letters or looking at trace remnants of a society, right. And as we, as we engage in that hands on component we use our knowledge that we've gained or gleaned in our in our classroom experience, to make critical commentary on what we're observing. And student research is is very important, especially here at Cal State San Bernardino, because student research takes place in a structured, mentored environment, no student is going to just walk into the College of Natural Sciences and go in a lab and start a research project, right, that just isn't really how it works in some fields, sure, right? Like, if you want to go to the archives at the Smiley library, for example, in Redlands, and look at older documents on Civil War veterans in in Redlands, which they have an extensive collection of you can do that, right, and you can just go and look at these documents. But student research as an activity is a structured, mentored experience where you're working with a faculty member and that faculty member is teaching you methodologies and and processes that allow you to not only bring a project to fruition, right? Imagine a project start a project, bring it to fruition, but also enables you to look at the results and understand the results based on the bigger picture. And you know, what you're doing in that setting is certainly on one hand providing more to the conversation surrounding your field, right. So every project that we engage in every experiment that we participate in, every survey that we send out, the results add to the bigger conversation that's ongoing in those fields, and make a contribution in some way. So it's important to keep that in mind. But equally important to that is that when you engage in research activities under under the guidance of a mentor, you're learning skills that will benefit you in that moment that allow you to be successful in that research project. But also skills that will benefit you in the next stage, regardless of what that might be. Certainly, we talked about student research as a very important part of building your CV to make you a qualified applicant to a graduate program. And that's really important. But research also helps us develop intangible skills that make us appealing to potential employers, right. So we develop time management skills, critical writing skills, critical thinking skills, we show that we have the ability to engage in and bring a project to fruition. And these are, these are things that I think will benefit us for the rest of our lives, right? We may not be working in that lab or in that archive and 10 years, we may not be reading those documents or having, you know, engaging in oral histories or surveys, but they're skills that we are learning that we can then take with us that help us be successful in the future. So that's a long way of saying that I think student research is really important to the the construction of sort of us as a whole student, right. Not only are we engaged in the classroom, but we're engaged in the field. And we're speaking with others in the academy and in helping helping propel our field forward. Well, awesome. At the same time, you know, developing skills that will last a lifetime.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I mean, all great points. I can imagine though, someone listen to this, maybe a student might think, you know, this is great. I agree with everything Dr. Keating saying, but my plates full as it is. Yeah. Yeah, that's and school. You know, it seems like this could have a positive impact on my academic journey. But it's, am I able to take this on, in addition to what everything else I have?

Ryan Keating  
No, it's a great point. You know, most of our students work 20 to 40 hours off campus per week. And so you're taking five classes, you're working 40 hours a week, you have other obligations, you know, friends, family, kids, you know, our baskets are all full. So here I am saying you got to do research on top of that, and yeah, certainly, I think that, that that we have to be thoughtful in our approaches to these activities, right as you project to the next step in your academic journey or in your career journey. We want to take on things that help us develop skills and make us more competitive, right that's that's part of the process right? When you think about graduate school, for example, you know, one of the things that I can say is that, you know, when you apply to a graduate program, you have to keep in mind that you're going to be applying for spots against people that are equally as good as you are, right. So the best of the best student at Cal State San Bernardino, in the Department of Biology, when they apply to a master's program, or a PhD program is going to be compared to the best of the best students from all the other biology departments, maybe across the country, right. So on one hand, we have to be thoughtful in what we take on right as it pertains to making us ourselves better applicants, but we also have to be cognizant, right? That, that self care is important, right? That having space for our our personal lives having space to to do well, in class, as well as do what we need to do outside the classroom is equally important. So one of the things that we're really keen about here at the Office of Student Research is ensuring that when students come to do research, when they come to us to engage in research activities, those activities are caught, you're compensated for your time, right? So if you're, if you're doing a project under the support of a faculty mentor, we work with the faculty mentor, and we work with the students to try to ensure that that student utilizes mechanisms, whether it's through federal work study or state work study, or grants to be compensated for their time, so that they're not having to sacrifice one thing or another. Right. And so, you know, that's important part of our identity. And that's, that's what we tell the students that maybe are hesitant, right and have a lot of stuff to juggle, we say, Yeah, you know, this is important and, and you can potentially get paid for it. It's and that goes to for like, traveling to conferences, right, or traveling to do research, we have mechanisms within the Office of Student Research, that are linked to funding opportunities for you to travel, travel, to do to do research, travel, to present at conferences, and so it shouldn't come out of your pocket. A great example of this is two summers ago, we sent a few students to Paris, France to present their research. And it was an amazing opportunity, right? Like, you get to go to Paris, you get to speak at a conference, you get to explore Paris. And this off student research pays for it because you're you're participating in activities that are beneficial to to the university as a whole, right? So you know, it's important to keep that in mind as well. It shouldn't be a financial drain on on you, by any means.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I guess that's a good segue into the next question in terms of you know, you're mentioning a little bit about what Office of Student Research does. Can you talk a little bit more about your office? Because, and maybe even from a standpoint of like, okay, if I'm a student, and I'm hearing this this, I don't know if I'm interested or not. And then you're now mentioned about like, maybe traveling conferences may beginning that may be covered. So can you talk a little bit more about that? 

Ryan Keating  
So that's, you know, the Office of Student Research, I say that we exist to make sure students have access to opportunities that they're interested in. Right. And that's, that's a big, that's a big key word there, this idea of interested in to get them to where they want to go. If you're sitting here listening to me today, and you're like, oh, research sounds interesting. Maybe it's something I want to explore. Your first stop, should be our office, we have peer mentors, we have a number of staff and then I'm also available to help you decide how to dip your toe in that water, right. And taking that first step is a really important one for a number of reasons. Taking that first step, often is is part of the process of clarifying what your journey might be, right? So if you're sitting here as a freshman or sophomore, even junior or senior saying, Well, what is my next step and you thinking, well, maybe my next step is graduate school. Maybe my next step is medical school. Maybe my next step is law school. Well, we need to start thinking about and being proactive with regards to what we need to do now to get us where we want to go and also ensuring meaning that what we're doing is something that makes us happy. And I'm really big on that, right? If you're not happy doing the type of work they want to do, then then it's going to be a really long journey through life, right? We want to do things that make us happy. So if you're thinking about research, if you're thinking about, you know, what, what can what can research do for me? Or how do I get involved, or even if I, if I even, like research, well, it's good to come to our office, and we can talk to you, right, we can sit down, we can have a conversation, we can help you find a mentor, we can help you talk to other students about research journeys. And, you know, most of the students that come to our office, we're successful in helping them helping place them in a lab or under research with a research mentor. And from there, I think it's a process of trial and error, right? Like everything we do at the university, you know, we want to try different things to determine what, what we're passionate about, and what gets us up in the morning. And so there's a lot of students that come in, they're not sure they want to do research, and then they have that opportunity. And they're like, Wow, this is really what I want to do. And then there's other students that come and they do it. And they're like, this is not for me. And that's totally, that's totally fine, right? That's totally fine for many reasons. Most importantly, right? When you know what you like, it helps you, it helps you insist it sustains you as you pursue those things. If you know what you don't like, it's equally important. If you don't like doing research, you don't like writing you don't like the process, then you should probably if you're thinking about going to do a PhD program in biology and you realize that you hate research and biology, you should probably maybe think well, what what else can I do that might make me happy? And so I really would say to any student out there who says well, what is this Office of Student Research and maybe I'm interested maybe, maybe it sounds like something I want to do just stop by our office, drop me an email and and come to our workshops. We have weekly workshops throughout the the academic year that focus on everything from you know, getting involved in research to finding a mentor to picking the right graduate school. And we have real real conversations. I don't, I don't believe in not being honest about the processes and and the work and what it entails because you should go in with your eyes open. But coming to the workshops is a great a great place to start if you're if you're interested in seeing what sort of work goes on on our campus. Every April, the Office of Student Research hosts what we call meeting of the minds. And it is a celebration of the student research that takes place on our campus. And usually we have around 250 to 300 students that are presenting their work in poster presentations or an oral presentation. So if you're like, oh, you know, what kind of research can I do here at Cal State, you can walk through the poster session and meeting the minds and see the vast array of work going on. And just off the top of my head I you know, we have faculty that are working with alligators. We have faculty that takes students to Mount Rainier to track the glacier movements. We have faculty who take students to Costa Rica, we have faculty who take students to South Africa, we have faculty that take students to local museums and archives. We have faculty that that host exhibits in the anthropology museum related to their work. And so, you know, taking a walk through that space allows us to see sort of the diversity that that exists within research and allows us to see what is something that we don't talk about the fact that research is is really individualized and special. And there's no, there's no one way to approach it, right. You can literally research on anything that you want, right if you if you take the right path. And that's really, really cool opportunity. We also have a number of programs that you can be involved in outside of just that, you know, dipping your toe in the water. So one of our flagship programs is the undergraduate summer research program. And this is a program that links up to three students with a faculty mentor, and they work as a team for 10 weeks over the summer on a major research project, and what's great about this program is that students get paid, they get paid, I think $17 an hour for 20 hours a week of work over those 10 weeks. So it's a you know, it's a pretty good paycheck for summer work, and they get an opportunity to participate in professional development building activities. We have a social event last last summer we went to the 60 Sixers game here in San Bernardino as a group and then we have an end of the summer conference. And that that's a place where students are able to share their research that they've done. We also have a number of other opportunities, student research and travel grants. We have mentoring programs, we have faculty student grants, which provide funding to faculty and students who are working as a team, and so on and so forth. If you check out our website and if you look at our calendar of workshops, you can really get a sense of the diverse or Arrays of opportunities available, both for students who are just thinking about doing research and for students who are engaged in and have been engaged in research for some time. 

Matt Markin  
And I can imagine the summer one might be interesting to some students, you might feel like, I just don't want to add anything throughout the fall and spring semester. But maybe if I'm not doing any summer classes, I may, might be able to take advantage of the summer opportunity.

Ryan Keating  
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's a great way to sort of balance your schedule. And our summer research program is the only one that exists in the Cal States as far as I'm aware. And it's it's an incredibly successful one, the students that participate in our summer research program, many of them go on to graduate programs, many of them are get published, or present their work with their faculty mentors at national or regional conferences. And it really sets the foundation for a lot of success we've seen.

Matt Markin  
Now, is there a suggestion in terms of of course, like every soon will be different in terms of their interests? But is there any advice you have for students that might ask, well, when should I start? Should it be something I'm starting when I start out at CSUSB, as a first year student, or just something as I get towards my junior and senior year?

Ryan Keating  
So you know, I think that when, when you're you're thinking about research, I don't think you can ever start too soon, one of the things that you don't want to one of the situations you don't want to end up in is deciding that you want to pursue a path, and then coming up to, you know, time to graduation, right. So many times I have students I more times and then I can count, I've had students come in February or March to my office hours to ask for advising about next steps and how to pursue graduate school. And the first question you ask a student is okay, well, when are you when do you graduate, right, because as a faculty mentor, what we're good at doing and what students should remember is that mentors can be a tremendous asset, as we can say, Okay, if you're gonna graduate in three years, and you want to go to graduate school, here's what you have to do, you know, in this next year, the year after, and the year after to be successful. But a lot of times students will come in and say, Well, I want to go to graduate school. And when I say, Well, what do you graduate? They'll say, Well, I graduated in May. And at that point, right, there's, you know, we're coming up on graduation is right around the corner. But also, you've missed the application deadlines, right? Most graduate programs, application deadlines are in December or early January. So if you're thinking about graduate school in March or April of your senior year, you've already missed that cycle, right? It doesn't mean you wouldn't get in to a program if you apply, but you're gonna have to wait a year because the application cycles are what they are. So when you're thinking about research in the process of research, it's never too late to get involved. First off, right. It's always there's always opportunities to build our CV to build our experiences. So if you're sitting here, and it's your senior year, and you say, Well, I'm interested in research, but it might be too late. Of course, it's not too late. Right, you might have to, you might have to be a little proactive in the coming months and and find a faculty mentor and really get engaged. But it's never too late. But if you, if you're looking at this as as part of the process of getting you potentially to where you want to go, you need to be very proactive and start early. And not to put pressure on people. But the sooner you, you make contacts with faculty, the sooner you start talking to faculty and and developing a relationship with a faculty developing relationship with a faculty mentor, the better prepared, you're going to be for success because a good mentor, and our faculty are phenomenal mentors at CSUSB. They know how the system works, they know the processes, they know, the deadlines, they know how to get you to where you want to go. And the earlier you can start that journey, the more successful you'll be. And so that's, you know, again, not to create anxiety and not to make it seem as though you know, you have to constantly be hustling to get to that next step. But you know, the reality is things are incredibly competitive, they're getting more competitive every year. And the best, the best way to be successful is to be is to be thoughtful in that process. The best way you can be thoughtful is to get all the all the knowledge that you can speak to as many people as you can, and also seek the advice of faculty in your field. And also, you know, again, Officer student research is there to help you start that that process.

Matt Markin  
One question that I have with that as sometimes students are a little nervous to maybe talk to their faculty or to certain departments. What's your advice for students to just even start that conversation? issue or going about? 

Ryan Keating  
I mean, I was very nervous to go talk to faculty. I remember like, I would, I would be in my dorm and I'd be like, Well, I gotta go I gotta go to office hours with with Cashman is this, he's my good friend, still, he's become a mentor, and still, you know, 2020 plus years later, you know, he's a good friend. But I was so nervous, right? Because I thought that here's this guy, he's so smart. He's a, he's a great historian. He's a great lecture, you know, he's not gonna have time for me, right. And the reality is, as a faculty member, here to say that, we love it when students come and talk to us, right? You know, we spend our whole lives researching things that that we're passionate about, right? And a lot of people don't really care about it. Yeah, you know, I, I go home at night, and I sit at the dinner table and my kids, I don't think they know I have a job, right? They certainly don't know I'm a historian are really what that means. So I don't really have. So like, I get to go home and talk history to, you know, people that are like, captivated by what I'm saying, right? So, you know, when I'm in my office hours, and the doors are open, and I have a student that comes in just to just to say, hey, you know, I enjoy that lecture, or, Hey, I'm really interested in your work. Can you tell me more about it, it's like, sweet, this is what this is what I've spent, you know, my whole life studying. And so somebody, somebody walked in on their own accord and wants to hear me. So that's really, that's really exciting for me. And I think that students need to need to think about that, right? Like, we're here because we're passionate about what we do. And we love to teach. Part of the reason that I came to Cal State San Bernardino was because I love to teach part of the reason I pursued PhD was because I want to teach and and my colleagues and friends in the faculty across campus feel similarly. So we're here for the students and and, you know, you might be nervous to go and talk to a faculty, but I can assure you, we're all we're all human, we're not going to be bothered by you dropping by. If we don't respond to an email immediately, it's most likely because we got 1000 other things to do. It's not really a reflection on on you, I tell my students, if I don't respond in three days, send me another email, I don't care. It's just a good reminder. And so, you know, just keep that in mind. Right? It might be it might be the first time you've ever sat down and talk to, you know, a faculty member. And that's okay, right. We're here to help. And we're here to make sure that you have the best knowledge so that you can pursue the best opportunities that can get you to where you want to go, right. So we're a tool that you can utilize to help facilitate your success. And I think that that's, that's an important thing to keep in mind. 

Matt Markin  
And this question is more like for advice for maybe an advisor or someone, a staff member on campus where maybe we're interacting with students throughout their time at Cal State? How would we know that we might want to talk to student more about student research and maybe navigating them to your office? Is there any questions that we should ask a student? Or is there anything we should look out for if a student says a certain thing?

Ryan Keating  
Yeah, I mean, I think that I think that the conversation with regards to advising or directing students offers student research oftentimes happens organically. You know, in my experience, as you know, in advising, we get to student research, from conversations about what the student wants to do, right? And how, how you get to where you want to go. So most students come in to talk to me, and they say, Well, how do I, how do I become a professor? Or I want to go to graduate school? How do I do that? And that's a great way to you know, begin the conversation and say, okay, in order to get to here, here's what you need to do in order to do these things, then you need to be engaged X, Y, and Z. Now, for advisors, I think the conversation can can come from similar discussions, right? You're sitting down with a student and you're looking at their major and the classes that they've taken and their GPA and you say, Okay, well, what is your goal? Like, where do you see yourself after you leave here at Cal State San Bernardino, and if the students interested or expressed interest in, you know, graduate school or professional school, such as law school or medical school, these are these are great opportunities to say, Okay, well, you know, you have great grades, you know, you have to take the MCAT or the LSAT where the GRE is but, you know, it's also really competitive, right, the next step is very competitive. So, here's things that you can do to be more competitive. I think that one of the misconceptions that students have that I've noticed is a belief that like in like, as a university is not high school. And so when you're in high school students are encouraged to do all of these activities be in this club, be in that organization, beyond this athletic team. And when you're at a university, certainly being involved in clubs and and other organizations on campus helps you develop a close connection to your university and helps you have a really great undergraduate experience. But when you're talking about the next step, right, advisors need to I think, talk about how, you know, students need to consider Well, what is that going to do for me to show that I'm interested in that next step, right? So you want to be cognizant of pursuing opportunities that showcase your interest in a certain path, right. So if you're interested in medical school, right, we need to pursue opportunities, internships, research that are related to the medical profession. One of the mistakes that I made when I was applying to graduate school, for example, was on my CV, I wrote things like, Well, I was a lifeguard at the YMCA for five years. And I thought, in my mind, well, me being a lifeguard and getting up at 5am, every morning to work before going to class shows that I have dedication and commitment, but to a reader from my graduate application, they were probably looking at this at the CV and I'm like, this ability to be a lifeguard has no bearing on his ability to be a historian or to think historically, right? So, you know, advisors through conversations with students and determining what students want to do, can nudge them in various directions. So if you're talking to students with high GPAs, that think they want to go to med school or expressed interest in science or research, you want to nudge them and say, Well, have you checked out these opportunities? Have you talked? Have you gone to any offices doing research workshops? Have you have you talked to any faculty right about the next steps. And I think that that's the primary port point of entry, where it just comes naturally from conversations and encouraging students to think about what they need to do now to show somebody in the future that they're passionate about this, this field. And also keeping in mind too, that when you apply to jobs, when you apply to professional schools, when you apply to graduate schools, you're applying online, you're sending an application off to a group of readers who will likely never speak to you or get to know you, outside of that application that you've put together. So you want to make sure that you're able to showcase who you are through the actions that you've done on campus. And through those actions, make it very clear as to why you're pursuing the path that you want, that you want to pursue. Right. And I think that that's for all parties is a very important part, to think about, right? It's not just the GPA, it's not just the GRE scores, it's it's a combination of our, our whole curriculum and co-curriculum that makes us qualified for those next steps. And again, I know this puts a lot of pressure on everybody, because, you know, they're like, You got to plan you got to plan you got to plan and sometimes I, sometimes I like, I laugh because I remember, you know, when I was younger, I was like in fifth grade, I have a son in fifth grade, fifth grade, my dad, my dad used to be like, Well, if you don't get good grades, now, you're not gonna get into college right now and his terrible anxiety about like, Man, I better get a good grade on this vocab test. Or it's, it's, it's gonna follow, you know, with me for the next two decades. And I'm not trying to say that to have people have anxiety. But at the end of the day, it does matter, right? Like we're at the points in our lives, the students are at the points in their lives, where the things that they do, and the things that they take on actually have real implications for their future. And so we have to start thinking about research as part of that process.

Matt Markin  
Now, a student might hear, you know, student research, but then they also might hear from others do an internship or it's part of your class requirement for your major. Yeah, are internships and secret research, are they interconnected?

Ryan Keating  
I think that they're they're definitely interconnected. You know, what, what research is, is the engagement in one's field what internships are are the engagement in one's field. Oftentimes, on internships, students are involved in some form of research, but like research, internships, help you develop skills critical to your success and the next step. And so not to hammer in the idea of a faculty mentor, right. But if a student is confused about what's best for me, for the next step, you know, having a conversation with a faculty mentor and determining, do I go an internship route, do I do a research? Do I do an internship that involves research right? These are the things that I At that, that makes sense for where I want to go. So, you know, as a historian, for example, there's a very vibrant field and we have a degree track in public history. Well, public historians need to do research. But they also have to do internships which involve hands on building of museum exhibits, working with archival materials, in ways that are not just the analyzing of archival materials, but the presenting of archival materials, and so on, and so forth. So while research is important, right to be successful in the public history, arena, you need to have that hands on internship experience. So when you go to apply for a job in a museum or archive, you can say yes, not only have I done research, potentially, but I've also actually built museum exhibits, I've also thought critically about space, and how space is utilized to showcase the past. And so that's a great example of why you'd want to have a conversation with a faculty mentor to to determine which path is correct for you.

Matt Markin  
And if a student wants to learn more about it, or get in contact, what's the best way to reach you or to find your website?

Ryan Keating  
Yeah, so you can email me directly. My emails are keating@csusb.edu. We have a office email osr@csusb.edu. And the general questions can be sent there and they'll be answered by our team. You can stop by our office. We're in college of education on the third floor, right across the hall from grad studies. I think it's 357 is the room number. Or you can drop into any of our workshops. We have workshops every Thursday at noon, on a host of topics. And you can just stop by they're all They're all via zoom. They're all free and open to any student at Cal State. And they're designed just to have real conversations about research and what you can do with research. 

Matt Markin  
Dr. Keating, I learned a lot and I'm looking forward to getting this out and having students listen to this. But thank you so much for being on the podcast today.

Ryan Keating  
Hey, Matt, thanks for having me. I really appreciate it.