Ep. 76 - Making Healthy Financial Habits & Decisions

In Episode 76 of the CSUSB Advising Podcast, Matt Markin is joined by Dr. Kristen Stutz and Oscar Flores Gonzalez from the SAIL Program! Kristen and Oscar help you as a student understand what financial literacy is, how to develop better financial habits, and make better financial decisions.

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Transcript

Matt Markin

Hello, this is Matt Markin, an academic advisor here at Cal State San Bernardino, and welcome back to the CSUSB Advising Podcast for our 76th episode. On today's episode, we're helping you learn a little more about financial literacy and why that's important to you as a CSUSB student. So to help us understand this better, let's welcome Dr. Kristen Stutz, the Director of the Student Assistance and Learning Program, also known as SAIL, who is also a previous guest all the way back from episode three of this podcast. And we have first time guest, Oscar Flores Gonzalez, a peer financial coach in the sale program. Kristen and Oscar, welcome. 

Kristen Stutz  
Happy to be here. Thank you so much. 

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
Yeah. Thank you for the opportunity.

Matt Markin  
Yeah. So we'll jump right in. And Kristen, we'll start with you on this one. And then Oscar, jump in after. We want to know more about your paths, you know, into college, maybe talking about your time, like why you chose the school you went to, what degree you got, and how you ended up at CSUSB, or the degree you're going for?

Kristen Stutz  
Well, my path was a very long and interesting one, but I don't regret any of it. I'll start there. So out of high school, I knew I wanted to go to college. Didn't know much about what I was doing, but just knew that, and had decided that I wanted to go get a degree in anthropology, and which I still love to this day, but didn't end up being what I stayed with, which I think is a common story, and I grew up in Southern California, applied to the University of Arizona, thinking I wanted to get far away and have that experience. And went there for a year, not realizing that I needed to pay because I was a California resident, pay out of state tuition, take out all these student loans. And once that reality hit me, then I decided to come back to California, and then I went to community college in San Diego, and then transferred to UCSD, where I changed my major to political science now, thinking I wanted to be an attorney, and didn't talk to anyone, didn't do any of of the behaviors and activities that I think, really, you know, enhance A college experience. I didn't go to the Career Center, I didn't talk to my faculty. I didn't do any of that. So when I graduated, I didn't have a real good sense of what I wanted to be my next step. So, long story short, I found a position on the campus UCSD in Student Legal Services, and learned that I loved working with college students. So then I became a financial aid counselor, and then I applied to San Francisco State about this. So there's about eight years in between here, and I went to San Francisco State to get a a degree in counseling, specializing in college counseling, because I knew that's where I wanted to be. And then the sale program here at CSUSB was my first job after I graduated from my Master's in Counseling, and I've been here ever since. But it was the working with sales students as a sale counselor over years and and seeing the kinds of financial decisions they were faced with and and seeing, you know, the lack of really good support and information out there for students to help right. There's, you know, from between high school and college, there's so many complex financial decisions you have to make, but especially, you know, this is in the early 2000s there wasn't a lot of support. So that made me interested. I knew I wanted to go back to school. I love college. I love everything about it. I love learning. So I knew I wanted to get a PhD. And it was that experience and sales students that inspired me to go back and focus my research on financial literacy and personal finance and personal financial planning. So Kansas State PhD and I graduated in 2019.

Matt Markin  
Very nice, and I have to say that I've similar kind of path, in a sense, where I, too as an undergrad, didn't necessarily utilize a lot of other resources, even though my ELP counselor was like, go here. Go to the Career Center. Go use this. And I was like, Yeah, I will. And then also I graduate. And I was like, Oh, no. What do I do now? But one of the decisions I made, picking the college or picking CSUSB when I went here, was dependent upon the financial aid, and they wanted to give give me grants, and, you know, the free money versus Humboldt State, which wanted to give me loans. And then I was like, Okay, that was a huge factor in what I decided to do. Oscar, yeah. Let's talk to you.

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
Yeah. So originally, and I'm still here. I'm from the eastern Coachella Valley. And if you're not really familiar with the area, it's, I specifically say the Eastern Coachella Valley, because the Coachella Valley has, in my opinion, this kind of like almost invisible line that separates the west and the east. So the West is where you have your palm springs, you know, you have your country clubs, you have your resorts. That's where a lot of the wealth is, and that's really what gets glamorized for tourism. And then the east, this is more where you have, like your large fields of crops, and more of like your agriculture economy, really. So you can assume, kind of, like, what comes with that, right? A little bit more of, like, a humble lifestyle. So coming from this part of the valley, there's never really much conversation about college, about your career. My parents were working in agriculture and also in the fields. So for them, the ideal lifestyle, for me, would be to just work inside somewhere, work somewhere that's air conditioned, that's comfortable, that to them was their ideal hope for me, even if it meant, you know, working inside of, say, like a Walmart, if I were to be in there, that to them was like ideal, because they didn't want me to be exposed to the same working conditions that they were right. So that, being said, going through school, I never really, that's not never really a thought that occurred to me about what, what do I want to do for college? What I want to do with my life? It was just always like, you know, just do well in school so that I can get a good job, whatever that means. And once it came time to actually apply for colleges, I was very fortunate to have a group of friends since elementary school where we're constantly questioning why, and, you know, why are things this way? Why is there kind of like this big disparity between our side of the Coachella Valley and the western side? Why can't we have newer textbooks that aren't, you know, falling apart at the seams? Why do we have to be at this older school, right? Why aren't we getting more education on what a chemistry major is, or what a biology major even means, or how can we fund school? Because these are all questions that we knew just from in general, like conversations that we'd hear, it's expensive. College is expensive. That's all we heard, but we don't know what that meant. So like I said, I was very fortunate to have a group of friends that kind of push these conversations alongside me. So when it came time to actually apply for schools, I at least had a little bit more of an idea of what exactly I was getting myself into. And I knew just more or less from my experiences that what I really wanted to do was something to do with business, because I love socializing with people. I love helping people, and I'm very numbers oriented, so I knew those combinations. I just kind of took those skills like this, this makes sense for business, and while they went on to CSU and UCs, I decided to stay back and go to a community college here locally, College of the Desert, because I made the most financial sense for me. It's like you said, Matt, same thing with me. I saw these financial aid packages, and luckily for me, I was able to understand them a little bit more. But, you know, I got offers for CSU San Luis Obispo, right? And I also got offers for Fullerton, and I got offers for SDSU. And while all these schools and campuses, I looked them up, they look gorgeous, and they look magnificent, I was looking at, you know, 10s of 1000s of debt by the time I was done there, where I looked at community college and, oh, hey, there's this thing called the BOG waiver, and you get your tuition paid for. So that, to me, made sense. I didn't have to pay for rent. I can stay home and live with my parents. So I went to community college here for two years, did my associates in Business Administration, and then I transferred to CSUSB with the intention of having a concentration in accounting. And this was back in the fall quarter for 2019 actually, I went into that and I quickly realized maybe I'm not cut out for accounting. It was, it wasn't, it wasn't working out. And then, for a number of reasons, some health related, some, you know, personal, I had to end up taking a leave from school after that quarter like that. It was the quarter system and covid, you know, was a big part of why the leave was extended. But eventually. Essentially, last fall, I made my first, I guess, return back to school, and I came back as an entrepreneurship concentration instead, because during that time, the entrepreneurship department was introduced, and it was grown out a lot more. And so I looked into what exactly is entrepreneurship, and I was really interested on all the various resources that that you can acquire as an entrepreneurship major. So I go into this, and I take my first semester here with Dr. Ezekiel Bonillas, and he really just inspires me. He's He's also here from the Coachella Valley. He's also CSUSB grad. So we really shared, like, this deep connection on what it means to give back to the community and what it means to be an entrepreneurship major, and really, more than anything, what it means to come from this valley and then making a name for yourself. And so that really is what made me realize, hey, this entire, like, two, three year kind of like, course, that I took away from school was worth it in the end, because it made my path align with Dr. Bonillas, and it really just revamped my purpose and my passion really as to why I'm doing what I'm doing. But more importantly, I was, uh, I decided to transfer CSUSB for the financial aid package as well. And so even though, again, when returning to schools like maybe UCR, maybe I should try UCLA, I stuck to CSUSB because of the financial aid package. And it ended up being one of the best decisions that I've made, just simply because of, one, the faculty, but two, the student body around it. And three, now it's like, I feel like we have an identity here at CSUSB, you know, where a lot of us being first gen students, a lot of us sharing that low income background, we we have this like collective support, and that's really what's helped me kind of take that next step forward and and continue doing what I'm doing,

Matt Markin  
I love hearing that, because that's something I hear from all students, even myself as as a alumni of this university, is like, you know, we've kind of grown up. We're doing this not only for ourselves, but also our, you know, our parents, our family, trying to make the difference, bringing things back, you know, to our community. And I know I earlier said Humboldt State, at that time, they were humbled. State, I will say that, yeah, now they're Cal Poly Humboldt, so no one come after me for that. But Oscar, you were talking about the entrepreneurship, doing that, and kind of originally doing accounting, so kind of like a trial and error thing, you know, where it's like testing things out and kind of seeing what works, what's interesting. And before we were recording, we're talking about how there might be that, this misconception about entrepreneur, entrepreneurship and something, and that it's just, you know, you do it to start a business. What was your answer to that? 

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
I know that that is the the general conception, right of entrepreneurship is that you go into your entrepreneur, you make a business. And that's what I thought at first as well. Then after taking my first class, I quickly realized it's not the case at all. It's it's really a mindset. And the way I look at it, more and more, it's like if entrepreneurship was the perfect path for me, because, like I mentioned, the Eastern Coachella Valley, it's a disadvantaged community that's the easiest way to put it. And the traits on entrepreneurship that are the most desirable, the ones that are most prominent are that of resourcefulness, resilience. You're very risk tolerant, right? And you're creative. So those are all things that I had to do growing up, because we're just trying to make ends meet, right? We had to be very resilient through those times. We had to be creative. And how we get through Week by week, day by day, and through that, you know, you learn to just be naturally resourceful. So you realize quickly that these traits are inherent entrepreneurship. And then you learn about a branch called intrapreneurship, which is you can be creative and innovative within your own sector, whatever that may be. So if you decide to even go into, say, the healthcare field, and you want to go into the business side of it, right? Entrepreneurship will help you be creative and optimize the way that operations are done on that level, and so you're able to move the ladder a lot faster because you're benefiting the company at large. So you're able to use that same resourcefulness and creativity within an organization to move up the ladder a lot faster compared to just making your own business and having to be creative, right with with resources at hand. So really, that's something that I try to make it known to people, is, regardless of what your major is, regardless of what your career trajectory is, entrepreneurship and its inherent values can really benefit you any step of the way. That's a beautiful answer.

Matt Markin  
So Kristen, if you can give maybe a brief explanation about because SAIL has the peer financial coaches, how that came about?

Kristen Stutz  
So SAIL is a student support services trio project, and we are...it's trio is a family of federally funded programs. There's eight, not three. There initially was three. That's where the name trio came from. And in we're funded every five years, and in 2010 the federal government added financial literacy to student support services the projects, and when so we had to incorporate those services into our program and, and it was a direct reaction to the Great Recession, 2008 right? And I was, you know, coming with my background, I was a VITA volunteer at one point, I, you know, was a financial aid counselor. I was really excited this. This was not an addition that I was not on board for. So it lined up perfectly. And so over time, sale has taken that mandate and you know, kind of look to see what is a good model how we can best serve our students and support their development as money managers and and personal financial planners. And so the first iteration was workshops. And there's, and, you know, we still do workshops. That was, you know, there's a, definitely a place for that, but I think the magic happens in the one on one, one on one experience, and so we develop the peer financial coaching model. And I, you know, I love that. Not only are the peer financial coaches supporting sales students. They're also developing themselves. It's like a pre professional training ground as well. And as you can see, you know, Oscar and his predecessors are just they were born to do this, and I've learned so much from them, and I know the sales students have really benefited. So we're getting ready to write our next proposal, and I, you know, I think we are definitely going to keep this model.

Matt Markin  
So Oscar, how did you become a pure financial coach?

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
So this speaking on Matt and Kristen on both of your past experiences where, when I first entered community college, I was, I was very centered on just going to school, getting good grades and going home, right like that. That's it. I just go to school, to go to class, and then head back home do my homework, repeat. When I first transferred here, it was the same thing, but during that kind of hiatus that I took, you know, that's when I really had time to look within and and I realized, coming back, it's not going to be easy, being removed some years. And so I really need to take advantage of whatever the school offers me to try to close that gap of, you know, just being away from from school, and not really being familiar with what's going on. And so that's when, during my orientation, I stumbled upon SAIL. One of the presentations for orientation was, was a sales department, and everything spoke to me, you know, like I said, I was able to really see myself in the program and the students associated with it. And so I made it a point to try and be as involved as possible coming back to school. And with that, I was meeting and attending the workshops of the past, peer financial coach, Angela, all of us. And so just being able to talk with her on a one on one basis, it was just it was always cool. We talked about pretty much anything personal finance related, and that was that connection that got created. So once she was due for graduation, which was this past spring, she told me, Hey, how long are you going to be here for? Would you be interested in doing this position? You know, I think you'd be a really great fit. And so at first I was really unsure about it, because I saw her as, like, the wizard of finance, right? Like, there's no way I can ever even come close to that kind of knowledge that she possessed. But I really pondered on a little bit more, and I realized this is my opportunity to give back. So I ended up talking with Kristen about it a little bit more in detail, and we worked it out. And now I've been here for, I want to say, a little over six months, right? And I'm still due for another year. So I'm very excited to see you know how much more we can help grow this program.

Matt Markin  
Kristen, Oscar, has been doing good so far?

Kristen Stutz  
Amazing, really? I mean, like I said, I he was born to do this, right? He has, he has the knowledge, the drive and the and the passion to serve and help and educate, and he, and he's a great communicator, as you can see, I know he's making Angela and Elizabeth proud, and he is doing a fabulous job.

Matt Markin  
Absolutely. I mean, Oscar, you presented at our advising academy not too long ago, and I'll say like when you you got praise while you were there, but also praise when you had left, and people were talking like that was such a great presentation. What a great presenter. Wish we could have him present to to our students, you know. So, yeah, everything Kristen said, 100% agree. But how do you actually define, like, I guess, financial literacy, to actually explain it to someone? 

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
So the way that I was like, starting the conversation right is we all work very hard and very diligently to make money in whatever facet of our life, whether that's coming straight out of high school, going to college, to get a career, even if money isn't your principal focus. You know, we all still want to have an ideal household, maybe some possessions, like a car or certain like household items that we'd like to have, or just in general, certain lifestyle that would like to support. And with that, what do you need? You need money. And so we all work towards money, is my point. So doesn't that make sense to learn how exactly money works, if we're working so hard our entire lives to get it it makes sense to learn how it works. So financial literacy is just that. It teaches you how money works, how it circulates around the entire economy, how it comes into our respective wallets, and how we can really utilize it to its max potential, to help it grow and work for us, not against us. So it's understanding money at its core. Financial literacy is understanding money and and how to make it work positively for you.

Matt Markin  
And I guess when you know, when you're meeting with students, how do you help them kind of understand, like, why this is, you know, how it's important to them, you know, because they might be like, Oh, that sounds interesting. That makes sense. But, you know, do I have time to learn more about it and actually implement this? How do you talk to students about that. 

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
I go into the conversations fully knowing that it's intimidating at its core, even going through K through 12, everybody always heard about investing, but that's all they heard. Was investing in how you hear all these like millionaire stories of people that made it big because they invested, but nobody really knew how to start that, and it just seemed like such a big learning curve. But what I always try to tell people, to bring them in, is with with a it's through the form of a budget. So I tell them, with a budget, it's like your financial screenshot, a little financial snapshot, because it tells you how much money is coming in, how much money is coming out. And then with that, you're able to plan out future possessions or future purchases, or, you know, a future lifestyle. So you don't have to have, like, a two hour commitment today to start right? There's another point that I try and make into people, if all you have today is 10-15 minutes of your time, I'd be more than happy to show you 10 to 15 minutes of whatever I can right? And then come back to me next week if you have another 10-15 minutes at that same time. So I try to make it a point to follow up with people, especially sales students, that are within the program, so we can have these discussions at their own pace. But the main thing is, let's go ahead and start planning your your future now, even if it's in small steps, because then you can, you'd be surprised at how much growth it can really have from now till, say, like a graduation day. Since you know the power of finance is the time value of money, so it's saying how your money could potentially grow exponentially over the course of years, thanks to interest. So that's why I think it's very important to really get people on board as soon as possible. But I am very aware that it may not be the most interesting or the easiest conversation to have right off the bat.

Kristen Stutz  
Time is the number one asset that you want to have to grow your money. And I think that, you know that having kind of thinking about that, seeing how that plays out, and that's something that students can do, working with with Oscar, you know, if I invested $10 a month for, you know, over 20 years, what would it look like? And, and I think people are always, always surprised how, how far that will go. So it's a great college is a great, great time to start to explore these concepts and experiment a little bit, and and and talk to people. When I look back at my college years that I did not embrace or maximize, right? I think about in a college campus is a place where everyone's there just to help, right? They really don't have an agenda. They you know, they're here to support you, where you know, after you graduate and go out in the real world, everyone you know, may have an agenda. They're trying to make $1 off of you, or whatever. That's not the case at a college campus, and so, you know, utilize your your resources here, and you know, experiment and talk to a lot of people with different points of view and come up with your identity as a money manager, because, as you can you need, because, like anything, you need to practice, and you learn through that practicing because you know, once you graduate and you know you start moving through your career and your life keeps going, your financial situation is just going to get more complicated and more complicated and more complicated, right? And so the foundation you set in as a money manager now can really serve you well and and help you make better decisions early, which then embraces that, that time factor, right? I know I did not make a lot of great financial decisions while I was undergrad, nor the years after that, and now that I'm older, I when I look back, I think, oh my gosh, if I would have just put $20 away, if I would have just opened a Roth IRA, then right and and I can't get that. That's one thing I can't get back. So I just urge, and every student has the ability and capacity to learn all of these things. And so I would say, just focus on the positive. What's the upside of money management? We always, you know, and I don't blame people or students, you know, because this was me as well. Money equaled stress, right? So you kind of, some people don't want to dive in, but I think the upside is that with planning and time, you can achieve a lot. And you can, you know, have a lot of those, achieve a lot of those dreams that you have.

Matt Markin  
I mean, I just think of, you know, Kristen when you're talking about, like, if I just hit, you know, save this $20 I think when in my senior year of college, I took, took out a loan. I had some grants at that point, but had to take out a loan to cover the rest. And kind of understood what a loan was. But, you know, once I got the money sent to me, I didn't really think about it, because in the moment, here's this money I have, and then, you know, six months after I graduate, then I get the letter in the mail, like, right? It's time to start paying back the loan. I'm like, Oh, that's right, I took out a loan. So I think it's great that, you know, we're talking about, you know, do this as early as possible. And I also think, though, that sometimes, you know, maybe it's when we get to our senior year that we're like, oh, maybe I should start thinking about this. For me as an advisor talking with students. What would be your advice to someone like me or other advisors when we're working with students to, you know, maybe bring this type of topic up?

Kristen Stutz  
That's a really good question. I think, you know, maybe starting by asking students what their goals are. You know, what is it that you really want to achieve? You know, this year before you graduate, you know, a few years after you graduate, so you get a sense of of what's important to them. And most likely some of those goals will have a financial component, and then, and then, you know, introduce it that way and say, you know, you're going to have to do some financial planning to make this happen. And this is a great time to do that, because there's a lot of resources here that are free to you, that you pay for with your with your fees that you can use to really help you plan now, but also build that knowledge and bring and build those skills so you can have them, you know, later on as well.

Matt Markin  
And then for students like what services are available like on our campus, for students with with finance, for about financial literacy. And you know, you have the peer coaches for sale. You know, is that strictly only for SAIL?

Kristen Stutz  
So, so, yes, our peer financial coaches can, you know, sale, because of our federal funding, we can only serve our students and our as as sale staff. Peer financial coaches are only here to serve sales students, so I invite the audience. If you're a first generation college student, or a low income college student, or a student with a disability undergrad, any major check out sale. We'd love to have you, and you can start using our our personal finance services as well as our advising and other services. But there's a lot of other ones on campus, and Oscar collaborates with them, so I'll let Oscar maybe want to highlight some of those other ones.

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
Yeah, so first and foremost, right? We do have the Financial Literacy 101, platform, and that's a big thanks to the Howell program that's led by Francisco Burgos. So with financial literacy 101, it's it really talks or it speaks to what I mentioned before, and not a lot of people have a lot of time in their day. You know, I know we all have complicated schedules and a lot of different commitments elsewhere, but through financial literacy 101, it's these virtual courses. That you can take. There's 15 courses total on personal finance. They're 45 minutes to an hour long. You can pick up and do 1015 minutes today, log off. It'll save your progress. You continue tomorrow or to the next day or after that. They're open year round. So even if you're busy during the semester and you want to do it over winter break or summer break, you're welcome to do that. And they also provide other tools on there, such as like an auto loan calculator, a mortgage calculator. They have budgeting tools within there, if you want to create your own little budgeting plan. And they also have a credit card repayment tool. So these are all topics that I believe are very relevant to students, just based on the conversations that I've had with them before at sale, but also with just classmates and friends at large. You know, people want to buy houses when they graduate. People are buying cars to commute to school or to get around right. A lot of people took out credit cards right at 18, and maybe they weren't the most knowledgeable on how they work, or, you know, their their downsides, so they spent a lot, and now they have to pay that back. But financial literacy 101, again, it offers those tools for free, those courses for free, and so it's a great way to help empower students with financial literacy. And it's free. For students, it's absolutely free. You just look up financial literacy 101, CSUSB and the how Program website will pop up. It'll have a little inquiry where you put your name, last name, and your student email, and they'll email you the access code so you can have free access to this website. So I 100% recommend that, because it's still something that I use frequently, especially when I'm meeting with students on one on ones, and another program slash organization within campus that's really helpful, as well as the Financial Literacy Center, and so they're in the San Manuel Student Union south, and in the Financial Literacy Center, it's just an entire hub of like minded individuals that are all there to help you understand money and personal finance more. And really, I'm a firm believer that being surrounded by like minded people is just the most beneficial thing you can do for yourself when you're trying to learn something new, right? And so in there it's there's no intimidation behind it. You can ask any question, and all you'll be met with is really just helpful advice and helpful resources. So that is the center that I would typically point students to, because it is open to all CSUSB students, whereas Kristen mentioned my services are strictly for self students, that would be the hub for CSUSB students at large.

Matt Markin  
And then to wrap things up, given both of you gave a lot of great tips throughout this recording, but what would be your top tips for students regarding financial literacy?

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
Yeah, because that's the first thing, I guess that I want to mention this, just kind of from my own personal experiences, is, don't feel bad about not having it all, right now, right? It's all it's a journey, and it's easy to look over another way and see, wow, that student has a really nice car. I wish I had that car. Or, like, Oh, wow. You know, that person is dressing really nice. I wish I had, like, that kind of, like, designer clothes, or, you know, that watch or or that chain that they're wearing, or they have the newest phone, right? These are all thoughts that also run through my mind, but when you really think about it. You know, maybe some of those students could afford it. Maybe some of them are just doing irresponsibly, not knowing really what they're getting into. But what really matters is what you're doing at the end of the day and what makes sense for your final situation. There'll be times where, yes, you can splurge a little bit and get some of the things that you like without having to break the bank, right? So that's why Black Friday. That's like my time to shine. If I want to get a new TV, if I need to get a new laptop or something for school, if there's something that I've been missing at home, Black Friday and Cyber Monday, that's when I'm shopping, because that's when the biggest discounts are. So that's when I can reasonably make purchases without you know, it affecting me too much, but at the end of the day, it comes down to your why and your final situation. So for me, in my ideal scenario, I would like to graduate no later than by the end of graduate, retire my bad retire by by no later than the end of my 40s, because I want to be able to travel and enjoy my life, you know, during that time and afterwards. So for me to do that, it takes a lot of sacrifice, and it takes a lot of responsibility and really ownership on what I'm doing now, and so I have to be very conscious of I can't enjoy every single little thing that comes my way. I can't just be going out to theme parks every single break, and, you know, going out to travel to said country every single break, I need to make some sacrifices so I can make that goal possible. And so when it comes down to it, financial literacy makes a lot more sense when there's a why behind it, because now you start doing things for a purpose. You're not just doing it like saving money. Is a is a great idea. You know, it's no longer that you're not doing it because I want to retire by x age. You're doing it because I want to be a homeowner by this age. You're doing it because, you know, you want to be free of all debt by x age. You're doing it because, and this is a noble goal. I hear a lot of people say, I want to buy my mom a house, you know, once I get my career by x age, so once you put a why behind the financial literacy, just makes a lot more sense. And like I mentioned before, it's about learning how to make money work for you, not against you. So that's really all I have to say about that.

Kristen Stutz  
And I agree with Oscar 100% and and I think that you know, kind of building on that, the you know, knowing what you what's really important to you, you know, we it's that seems very obvious, but really, really figuring out what your values are, what's most important to you, thinking about that, writing it down, and then prioritizing that, or putting that in order, right? Because we have only so much time, we have only so much energy, and we have only so much money, so we should be giving those to the things that are most important to us. And I think, if you're like myself, a lot of times when I reflect, I'm giving a lot of that to things that aren't very important to me that are a lot further down the list. So So having that clarity, okay, this is what I care about. Like for Oscar's example, I want to retire by this, by this date, right? When you know that, when you can define that, then you can reverse engineer it, and then figure out, okay, well, how much do I have to save each month to make that happen? And and then you know that that's how it becomes, you know, a reality, and that's how money becomes a tool, a really positive tool, so knowing what's really important to you, and really taking that time, and then setting those goals and having really clear goals. You know that, you know, many people have heard of SMART goal setting. So setting those smart goals, going through that process, you know, if you go out in the, you know, and hire a financial planner to work with you, that's what they're going to do. They're going to have you start out by, you know, figuring out where you are, financially, right, doing a budget, net worth statement and maybe some other documents, and then they're going to have you set those goals, and then they're going to, they're going to make them smart for you, and then help you put a plan together. So goal setting so important.

Matt Markin  
Love it. Love these answers. A lot of great information, useful information throughout this whole thing. So Kristen and Oscar, thank you so much for being on the podcast today. 

Oscar Flores Gonzalez  
Thank you for having us.

Kristen Stutz  
Loved it. Anytime.