Ep. 22 - Advising Changes and How it Benefits You

In Episode 22 of the CSUSB Advising Podcast, Matt Markin interviews Sara DeMoss from the Academic Success and Undergraduate Advising office about being Director of Mentoring & College Advising, how the advising structure has changed at CSUSB, how students can benefit, the new advising drop-ins, and advice for students. 

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Transcript

Matt Markin  
Hey, Coyotes. I'm Matt Markin, and welcome to the CSUSB Advising Podcast. Join us as we bring you the latest advising updates at Cal State San Bernardino, we provide you advising tips interviews with both CSUSB campus resources and those in academic advising. The spring semester is starting January 22 for Saturday classes and January 24 for regular weekday classes. Always stay up to date by checking your CSUSB email. Any and all updates regarding returning back for the spring semester will be there, and we're excited. You're listening in today if you haven't already subscribed to our podcast on your favorite podcast platform. So we're on Apple, Spotify, Google, Stitcher, you name it, we are there, and I'm super excited for today's guest, and that is with Sarah DeMoss, the director of mentoring and academic advising at Cal State, San Bernardino. Sarah's work focuses on student mentoring and college transition, experiential learning and career readiness and academic advising for undergraduate students. Her research interests include representations of higher education and popular culture, leadership, identity, development of college women, critical mentoring and the dualism of mentoring as both an oppressive and liberating practice. Sarah, welcome to the podcast. 

Sara DeMoss  
Thank you for having me. Matt, happy to be here. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I'm glad you're here, and I think a lot of listeners are going to get to know you a lot better and know a lot more about advising as well. And so let's dive into it. You're the director of mentoring and academic advising at CSUSB. What does your role entail? What's your day to day like?

Sara DeMoss  
Honestly, it's ever evolving. I'll start there. Reason being is we've gone through a series of changes in the academic advising world. So my my role is two fold. First, as you mentioned, I'm the director for our student mentoring program here on campus. So we work with a handful of of student leaders who mentor other students. So it's a peer led program where students support other students with college transition, career readiness and things like that. The other part of my role is recently, we are actually in the process of transitioning from a decentralized academic advising model to a centralized advising model. And so what that means is that prior, prior to last year, all of our academic advisors were housed within specific colleges based on students majors, and so those advisors worked within each specific college. And now what we've done is we've brought all of our academic advisors together within we're now called, we were undergraduate studies, but now we're academic success and undergraduate advising. So we've brought all of our advisors under one group, where now we can look at, you know, ways that we can help improve the advising process and visibility for students. Because I think that's been a challenge for our students, is really understanding who's my advisor. Where do I go for advising? And then their experiences within different college advising settings could be different because everyone operated sort of in different ways. So right now the bulk of my day is really working with Ed Mendoza, who's the director of advising and academic services for undeclared in our first year students, and our Dean of Undergraduate Studies, Dr Leslie Davidson, board to identify, you know, ways that we can streamline and make the process for advising a lot more easier for students, and so that really consumes a lot of the day.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, I bet. But I think it's a great thing that's that's being done, because then, you know, if anything, you could probably go up to a student, once all these changes are done to be like, Do you know where to go? Yes, I do. And you know, and everything's streamlined, and they're not guessing. And I go for this, or would I go for that? Or I don't know, so I'm not going to go to anyone and, and I think that also kind of ties into, you know, what the university in general wants to do is just make sure students are aware of resources they can take advantage of those opportunities and ultimately be able to graduate, right?

Sara DeMoss  
Well, yeah. And, you know, even things like, you know, like the website, you know, one of the things we've identified is just the website in itself is really challenging to navigate, because we had just so many different sites for different advising groups. Now we have, you know, we're working on one website with one contact and for, you know, one phone number, one email address, one centralized place where, you know, we've got folks checking emails, returning phone calls, answering phone calls, things like that. So, you know, so I'm really excited for the changes that we're making, because I really feel like it's centering students and really demystifying the academic advising process itself.

Matt Markin  
And then also, to add to that, you have, there's drop in advising pretty much Monday through Friday, in a way, right?

Sara DeMoss  
So one of the things we did is, instead of having multiple drop in hours and days based on colleges. Is we have what we call our General, General drop in advising hours. And so Monday through Friday, nine to three students can drop in. And these are virtual right now, so that we have a zoom link that's posted on our website, students can can drop in and receive, you know, advising now it's not it doesn't replace meeting with an advisor. The sessions typically are shorter in time, more focused on if they've got questions that they need help to you know, with policies, procedures, how do I register help? You know, looking at their pause, things like that, they can drop at any time and speak to an academic advisor. And oftentimes we'll have peer advisors in there as well.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, yeah, that's nice, because sometimes it's just, I have that quick question, and maybe it's only a few minutes that they really need, so those drop in advising hours can really help out. 

Sara DeMoss  
And it's a point of contact, right? It's like, it's a place that they know that, hey, at any time, I can be received, right? I'm not going from office to office or door to door, you know, hoping that I find somebody, but I know that I at this time, I can go to this place, and somebody is going to help me either identify what that next step is, or answer the just a basic question they have.

Matt Markin  
100% so let's get to know you a little bit. How did you get involved in academic advising and higher ed? 

Sara DeMoss  
My gosh, Matt. Do you have time for this? I'm 46, years young, so my journey has been somewhat long, but it's actually, you know, it I think it's interesting and it's relevant, and my story has really helped me to connect with students, a lot of different students, just because of the commonalities. But I'm a career changer, so I've got a couple different academic identity pieces my first generation college students. So first in my family to attend college, I was a traditional college student, so when I graduated high school, I actually was enrolled here at CSUSB. I went through the academic probation process, and I ultimately, I stopped out. It was just, you know, I didn't know how to navigate college or the large classrooms, and it was really easy for me to become invisible. So I stopped out. So then I became a post traditional student, and I returned. When I returned to college, I think it was 1920 I went to through the community college system, so I'm also a transfer student. So when I was going through the community college system, I actually that's when I developed, I think, some confidence to really understand that, wow, okay, I can do this college thing. I remember I earned a B in a class, and I was so excited, and so then that motivated me to want to earn an A. And I had this one professor, Mr. Yoshino. Ron Yoshino, from RCC, he was a history professor, and his classes were when he would give an exam, he would do hybrid, so it would be multiple choice, but also essay exam. So there was two parts to it. And once I actually was able to do my exam in writing, I learned that for me test taking, I'm actually better in writing and I and I started receiving A's and classes. And so because of that, he really had an impact on my life. And so when I transferred to UCR, I was a history major. Now again, first generation student. I did not pick my major based on on a career. I didn't even think that far ahead. I just picked, I picked classes based on what was interesting, what I was passionate about. So I graduated with my degree in history, and the interesting thing is, like, I thought this magical thing was going to happen. So when I graduated, I thought doors were going to open, just something was going to change, and it didn't. I fortunately, at the time I was I started working at a bank as a bank teller to pay for college. And so as I was going through college, I was moving up ink as well. And so I ended up staying in banking. And so my first career was in banking. So I went through the banking crisis into nine and ultimately I was a branch manager at JPMorgan Chase. And so I went through that acquisition successfully. And it really midlife. I was 3033, I want to say is when I met my husband and and my partner encouraged me to go back to school, because I had said, you know, I really want to go into education. And so we decided to have a family. And I left the bank, I went I started a master's program, and I did my master's program in higher education at University of Redlands. And again, first generation student. I didn't do any ring colleges. I saw that they had a higher ed program, and so I thought, Oh, wow, I get a master's. I can teach community college, but the subject was higher ed. So no, that's not the case. And so So I shifted, and I really saw a lot of overlap in higher education and in my my previous careers in banking. So I graduated from U of R. I was seven months pregnant, and they just happened to have an admission. And position open, and so I applied. And so again, there was I brought a lot of transferable skills from the banking world that really mapped over well with with admissions. And so that's where I started my career in higher ed. And then a couple years into that, I one of our academic advisors, Jessica Davis, had done the master's program with me, and she had told me about an academic advising position here with the College of Arts Letters. So I applied for the position, and I decided to make the move and and so that's how I started as an academic advisor. So really, 2016 is when i i entered higher ed as an academic advisor. And I'm going to tell you, Matt, it was that was the best role of my life in my entire career. Because, again, I think because my journey as a first generation student, and all the things that I wish I would have known along the way, I felt like I'm able to share that with students and really help them fill in those gaps of knowledge or things that they might need to have, and it's really helped me to connect with students. So that's my story on how I got in. That's a long story. I told you.

Matt Markin  
Oh no. It's, it's great. And I think anyone listening will probably be like, Yeah, I mean, it's, it's never really like a direct path, you know, it's We live Life, and, you know, either roadblocks happen or different opportunities happen, and it takes us on a different path. But ultimately, we look back, we can see the decisions we made that got us to where we're at. And like you're saying, with, like, some of the different positions jobs that you had, yeah, they might have been different structure wise, or different in what was being accomplished for that job, but the skills that you learned you were able to transfer over. And hopefully, any students that are listening, you know, will, you know, hopefully be reminded that, yeah, you're you're looking for those transferable skills, and your interest might change too, and your passions might change, and but it'll make sense in the end, right?

Sara DeMoss  
Right. Oh yeah, it is interesting too. And even thinking about career changing, you know, sometimes we might look at that as, you know, I'm speaking to, you know, maybe folks who want to come back to school, who are, you know, who, who already are an established career. I think that sometimes your movement in your second career goes a lot faster. So it's not necessarily the conception or the misconception that we're starting over, and sometimes that's but you actually start over, but you move faster, because you do have those skills and that experience that you bring.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, most, most definitely. And now you've been at CSUSB for a few years. So what keeps you at Cal State, San Bernardin? What do you like about working at CSUSB?

Sara DeMoss  
I love the students, the students. And so here's the thing, and so I'm actually sad. Okay, so in my current role as a director, you know, I don't get to meet with as many students they did when I was an academic advisor. So So, so that part I'm sad about. So when I get to meet with a student. Oh my gosh, I take advantage of that, and I hold on, it makes my entire week. So really, really this, it really is the students that that keep me here and my colleagues, because I the people that I work with here, they're in this work because they care, like these academic advisors, all of the folks in our in our academic success programs, they're here because they care. And you can see that passion, just in the dedication that they have to their work. And that's motivating, that that motivates me being able to have the opportunity to work with our student leaders, I'm just in awe of their abilities and their power and their strength and their professionalism, and how much I learned from them on a day to day. You know, our programs, because of our mentoring program, we have a right now for mentoring. We have about 86 student employees. I've got about 20 peer advisors that work in the advising side, and so being able to give the students these opportunities to develop their own professional skills that they can then articulate onto their resumes, you know, that drives me, because I know how important that is, and even being able to help students understand that, hey, by doing this work, this is, these are actually the skill sets that you're developing. This is how you articulate those and then seeing them with that aha moment, like, oh my gosh, I didn't realize. Oh, I'm doing that. Wow, I sound so it's like, you know you are, yeah, you've got these skills. Um, so I you know that that's really what keeps me here. Potlucks. I love the potlucks. The students, they put on really good potlucks.

Matt Markin  
Food is always good, but, yeah, it's great when you're talking to them and you kind of see that light bulb go off. But even going back to you talking about how caring the advisors are, you know you can teach someone a. Job, but you can't teach someone how to be nice and caring and so, yeah, you're absolutely right when you know we have such a great team of advisors at this university, and everyone cares about the goal of helping our students and making sure that they make the best of themselves and they can graduate and be productive when they leave and maybe even come back for a master's program. Who knows, right? 

Sara DeMoss  
And, you know, part of that, Cara, this is just something that I've been I've been thinking about too, because, like, we think about, okay, how do we help students develop the skills that they need also, to navigate University, right? Like, how do we teach it's so important for them to learn how to read their paws, how to do things on their own, like to register for classes. So I think too, one of the challenges, in part that gets caught up in the care too, is, is okay? How do we like? And I'm thinking, Okay, let me put my I'm putting my mommy hat on my parent hat, you know, is like, Okay, how do I, how do I teach you to sort of be accountable for some of these pieces, so that you're putting forth some action, so that you learn from that, right? And then what things do I do for you? And so I think sometimes that's a struggle with the advisors, because we want, we want to do everything for them, and then sometimes we know, okay, no, we need to teach you, right, so that you're self sufficient and you know how to do these things. So there's always this balance. And it's fun, it's neat, it's neat when I see that struggle, because I know it's really coming from a place of care. 

Matt Markin  
Oh yeah. I I totally understand what you're saying with that. Because sometimes it may start off, like, more prescriptive, because the students trying to understand, like, what am I supposed to do? So hey, let's do A, B and C, and that'll take us all the way to x, y and z. But then somewhere along the line, it kind of, you know, switches to where maybe we're both on an equal playing field, and we're actually learning from one another, students and advisors. So it's always nice to see that growth. And now, speaking of growth, there's always change. And you know, much of you've seen this university grow and change over the years, and you know you've been active in students lives and the different capacities and different levels with the different positions you've had at this university, and maybe this is for students or even advisors, or just maybe in general. But what advice do you have for people as they continue to navigate an ever changing world, ever changing institution?

Sara DeMoss  
I mean, I think change. I think what's helped me, because I've been through a lot of change. I think that to understand that change is inevitable, right? Like it's going to happen, we don't necessarily know when. We don't know what that looks like. It's inevitable. It's constant. You can count on it. It's scary, and that's okay, right? It's okay to feel scary. But I think the if we learn how to accept change and adapt to it and be flexibility to shift with it, I think that that that helps that change process. I think asking for help is okay, and it's really, really important. I think I know that our society has stigmatized asking for help. It's been framed as a weakness, you know. But in reality, I see it as a strength, right, you know? And so I would say, and I know, I, you know, I follow your podcast, and I know a lot of folks guests you've had have always said, you know, utilize your resource sources. But I can't tell you how much that, how important that really, really is coming from a place where I never, I did not do that, you know. And had I done that, I may have, you know, had a different college experience, you know. And your resources. This whole campus is filled with resources. We've got faculty, you've got staff, you've got your peers. I mean, they're everywhere, you know, I would say, believe in yourself. You know, this is for staff, faculty and students. Believe in yourself. We're all here for a reason. We belong here, right? But, and and believing in yourself as you know, it's easier said than done sometimes, and sometimes it's a thing of practice. So self talk is good if you have to tell yourself, I'm awesome, I rock. I got this, you know, do it. I think every moment, every moment is a it's an opportunity to learn and grow. Every moment. Yeah? So sometimes, though, we don't get the outcomes that we that we want, right, like, for example, a grade right? I worked hard and I did not get this grade I want. Don't get discouraged. Don't get discouraged. It doesn't define you, it doesn't, you know, define what you're capable of, you know. And I think one of the things, and then this might be more toward for students, is to understand your power. Because students. Power. You have power, you know, and you have a voice. And in this campus, you know, cares about your voice, and your voice can make change. So talking about change, I guess, and wrapping this piece up is that sometimes we have to navigate change that happens, but sometimes we can also create the change. And students have the power to do that.

Matt Markin  
Yeah, they do. And it's yeah, just kind of finding that voice and using it. And you know, you were talking about resources, and we know at CSUSB and many other institutions, there's resources, a lot of resources, for students. And sometimes it can be overwhelming. How many, how many resources there are, and who does what? And when do I go? Can I go? Is it free? Am I paying for it? How do you make sure that students are aware of resources, they understand what they are, but also that they utilize them? 

Sara DeMoss  
You know, that's the challenge. Matt, especially with covid, I've noticed that that's really been an unfortunate, sort of unintended consequence of being like virtual and being remote. So some of the things that we do is we have an excellent student mentoring program. Again, we can't force the students right to participate, but, but we do a lot of outreach. So we do a lot of messaging to students, reaching out to students, just to let them know that we're here, encouraging them to, you know, to request a student mentor. I really think, honestly, like when it comes to connecting resources, advisors are great, but advisors also have other, a lot of other things that they have to work with students on. The student mentors, they really spend the majority of their time talking with students about their experiences and connecting them with the resources. So so we do what we do, we push a lot through our mentoring programs. We've expanded our mentoring programs a lot to where we're we've really evolved to rather than having students have to go into a specific mentoring center and peer mentor. Where we're doing, we're branching out and doing a lot more program partnerships. So for example, we partner with first year or that, oh my gosh, foundation seminar. So all of our freshmen who are going to those foundation seminars this, this spring term, we are, we will have every section matched with a mentor. So all of those students who are going through that foundation seminar will be exposed to a mentor. And so I think right there is going to be a great opportunity to capture a large audience, to get them involved. Most of the classes will have the mentors embedded in the class, so they will have an active part of that class. We have a partnership with our library faculty, we call our library ambassador program, and with that, it's the same thing where we've identified specific courses that have critical literacy pieces, and we we reach out to the faculty. They'll invite our mentors, and our mentors will do, do a workshop on how to navigate the library, and, you know, in research skills and things like that, we've, we've partnered with coyotes achieve what was formerly our, you know, we have a summer, summer program for incoming students, and our mentors are embedded in a resource class that takes place there. So, so we do a lot on the on the mentoring side. And so I think going forward, what we're really trying to do is really bring that awareness to our campus partners to know that we're here, so that they can also connect students to us, so that then we can connect students with more resources. I hope that's helpful.

Matt Markin  
Oh, yeah, and I like the idea of the mentor being embedded with the class. I remember, I mean, this was years ago when I taught a First Year Seminar, but it was part of like a pilot where they had some of the mentors embedded in that class, and I had one in mind, and I thought it worked out very well. I'm sure a lot of it has changed since then, but I could see the benefit of having that person, that student in there, that mentor in there, because they were able to relate more to the students. They had time to check in with with my class, with those students, and kind of help them navigate life in their first semester. So it was really great, and now you have a lot of interest, one of them, representation of higher ed and popular culture, leadership, identity, development of college women. What makes these research topics connect with you and and anything that you found out in your research?

Sara DeMoss  
Yeah, I mean, I've always been really interested in how we're how we view the world, right? Like, socialization, that's always been the social construct. Like, that's always been my, you know, like, how do, how, why do I see the world the way I see it? And, you know, what is that about? And then as I've grown and developed, I've learned, wow, like I used to see things one way, but now I see that. I've learned there's multiple ways to see and understand, and that how we see and understand and our ability to adapt really affects how we navigate this world with other people, professionally, personally. Um and our communication with others. And so it started, really as a more of a of a me thing, to understand my myself, so I can understand my own unconscious biases and things like that. And so I really started getting into the higher ed representation of higher ed, or just representations of anything in popular culture, whether it's gender, you know, race, all of these things, because I, you know, we're exposed to a lot of images and symbols as we're growing up, and that informs how we how we view the world. So that's, that's where I started. And I think, I think a lot of times with research, it becomes very personal based on our own experiences, right? And so I think that's where mentorship and leadership really started to to occupy a space in my research, because, you know, being a leader in the banking world, and this was a reflection later on in life, when I reflected back what I experienced as a female identifying branch manager was very different. And the treatment that I received, the perceptual treatment from staff, was very different than what a male identified branch manager went through. And so even going into the crystal, that's where I started. Was like, okay, so what is this? And so I started doing research on, how do women become leaders, like higher level leaders in higher education, and why is there such a shortage, and why is there a shortage of mentors? Because mentorship has been, you know, it's been really key to, what do you call it? Not vouching, sponsoring, sponsoring other leaders and I, and ironically, there's this thing they call homo social reproduction, where we tend to mentor people who are like ourselves, right? So then we're reproducing this white male prototype of of leadership, right? And then also even what effective leadership is perceived at, which is very gendered. And so, you know, and so what I found in my research is just that that it really is, there really is this perceptual, this perceptual thing. What do they call it? Oh, my God, mismatch. I can't think of the word. There's a term for it. Whereas, basically the way that women perform leadership which is more they call communal leadership, which is more like relational, collaborative, everybody's a leader sort of thing. It mismatches with what society and institutions perceive as effective leadership. It's seen as a weakness, and so that's posed a problem for women, and oftentimes, a lot of women who ascend to high leadership positions is because they're reproducing the male prototype. So it's anyway. So that's where I got because that's where I really got into and that's where tying it back to the experiences that our students receive here our student leaders. I was really interested to know. Okay, so where does leadership identity start, and how can we help infuse that and give our students those opportunities so that they can perceive themselves and see themselves as leaders, regardless of gender or identification, how they identify? 

Matt Markin  
That was perfect. Perfectly answered and and just like you're like you were saying in it, you're connecting it back, you know, connecting to the students, or, if we even think of like your your job at the bank, transferable skills. Like everything connects in a way, and it's always nice. Now, speaking of research, though, sometimes people hear the word research and it's like, I know, don't don't want to get anywhere near that. I guess. Do you have any advice for those that you know don't even know if they're interested in wanting to do research, or how to even start something like that, or how to demystify that that? 

Sara DeMoss  
You know it's interesting, because I'm interested in that too, right? Like, who can create knowledge? Who can you know, really, if you're, if you have questions, you're a researcher. If you if you have any question, you're a researcher. Research, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, I don't know the right words, but I know it's, it's been used as only certain people can can do research. If you have access to the internet and you have Google Scholar, you can you can Google Scholar anything you're interested in, and you will find a host of articles. You have access to these articles through our own database as a student, and you can read and learn about stuff that you're interested in. A lot of times, there's misconceptions that you have to have to have a PhD to to publish or to and I'm going to tell you, I've got colleagues who who don't have a graduate degree, who are publishing. And a lot of times, I think what makes it a lot of times, the research is based on your own experience. You. And then you look at other people's research to either validate or to expand upon the work that you're already doing. And really, a lot of the publications, especially the practical publications, are just talking about stuff you've done and what's worked and what's not worked, and how you've, you know, improved, what you've done and what you've learned, and then other people learn and build upon that. It's like a conversation. But I would say that if you have a question, then you're a researcher, and if you are interested, I mean, again, we're all resources. All of our advisors know how, know how to, how to research, right? A lot of our students, our mentors, are, you know, they know how to research. Ask us, I mean, you know your faculty? Oh, my gosh, I can't. I wish when I was an undergrad, I would have had the opportunity to engage in research with faculty. But again, it was scary. I didn't know what it was. It was like, this big, scary thing that only certain people could do. It's like, no anybody can do it. 

Matt Markin  
Yeah. Oh, I love the way you put that. So I think I'm going to start saying that now, if you have a question, you're a researcher. Because, yeah, if you have a question, you just want to even start searching for an answer. That means you're looking for that answer, you're interested in it, you're invested in it. So, yeah, everybody's a researcher.

Sara DeMoss  
Our students are probably more a researcher than us now, because, like, if you look on YouTube for stuff to learn, if you look up stuff with the purpose of learning, you're a researcher.

Matt Markin  
So this was fascinating, and I think you know, anyone listening, you know, got to know you a little bit more. Got to know about more of the structure of advising. Now, if students have general advising questions or any questions and they're not sure, who do I ask? Who can they contact?

Sara DeMoss  
We've got one email address. It's advising@csusb.edu and we have one centralized phone number. It's 909-537-7345, reach out to us, and we will connect you with whoever you need to be connected to, whether it's advising related or not.

Matt Markin  
Okay, sounds good? Great. Thank you so much, Sara. 

Sara DeMoss  
Thank you, Matt. It's been a pleasure.

Matt Markin  
And as we wrap up this episode of the CSUSB advising podcast. This is just a reminder to please check your Cal State email from January 11 to see a message from President Morales regarding the spring semester, and that we will be open for remote and online instruction for the majority of courses starting January 22 and that will remain virtual until February 18. And so what you want to do is continue to check your email, especially to hear from your professors regarding how online teaching will be during those first few weeks of the spring semester. Please also check your Blackboard or Canvas accounts to see if your professors have posted anything there regarding online learning. And if you have any questions, please email advising@csusb.edu until next time, we'll see you later.